John Williams, born Llansadwrn, c. 1845

[liverpoolgenealogy]

Hi,

I'm looking for information about John Williams born in 1845 in Llansadwrn in Anglesey. He's the furthest back our family can go with oral history. Our family story was that he was born around Menai Bridge and became a tiler in Liverpool, and owned property, and I've found some records to back that up, but not many. Apparently he tiled some buildings in Liverpool today that are listed (The Royal Hotel in Smithdown Road apparently being one of them, but I've not found proof of that) I've had trouble tracing him before he moved to Liverpool though, and was wondering if anyone could help.

1881 census:
66 Lightwood Street, Liverpool
John Williams, head, married, 36, tile layer paviour, b. Llansadwrn Anglesey
Mary do, wife, married, 29, b. Llanbadrig, Anglesey
Grace Ann do, Daughter, 1, b. Liverpool
Margaret Ellen do, Daughter, 2 weeks, b. Liverpool
Jane Parry, nurse, widow, 64, servant? B. Almwch? Anglesey
Hugh Hughes, boarder, unmarried, 44, builder, b. Llanbadrig, Anglesey

1891: 4 Yamwath Street, Liverpool:
John Williams, head, married, 46, tile setter, b. Llansadwrn Anglesey
Mary do, wife, married, 40, b. Llanbadrig, Anglesey
Grace A. do, Daughter, 10, scholar, b. Liverpool
Margaret E. do, Daughter, 10, scholar, b. Liverpool
Hugh J. do, Son, 8, scholar, b. Liverpool
Mary E. do, Daughter, 7, scholar, b. Liverpool
John R. do, Son, 5, scholar, b. Liverpool
William O. do, Son, 3, b. Liverpool
Cath M. do, daughter, 1, b. Liverpool

He also lives at 4 Yamwath Street in 1901. His children are living there in 1911, but not him. I haven't managed to find an entry for him. Mary died in 1891, aged 40.

Obituary posted in Liverpool Echo 6 March 1914:
WILLIAMS-March 4, in his 69th year, John Williams, tile merchant of 39, Ferndale Road (late of Yanwath Street)...

He died in the Tuebrook Mental Hospital, so I assume he could've been there at the time of the 1911 census? 39 Ferndale Road in Toxteth occupied by different family at the time, the same address in West Derby is also occupied by a different family.

Marriage record: 25 December 1876, Liverpool St. David's
John Williams, 32, bachelor, builder, of the parish Walton on the Hill. Father: Hugh Williams, Labourer.
Mary Hughes, 26, spinster, Queen Anne Street, Father: John Hughes, Farmer.
Witnesses: Thomas H[cant read full middle name] Morley and Hugh Hughes (all signed)
The witness Hugh Hughes appears on the 1881 census.

I've looked for possible baptism in the area and the closest I could find to Llansadwrn was this record:
23 April 1845, Llanfihangel Ysgeifiog
John Williams, son of Hugh Williams, Labourer, and Elizabeth.

Haven't managed to find anything about his parents, or any census results for 1851-61-71, not sure what to do!

If anyone can provide any help, I would be very grateful, thank you. 

[Neale1961]

Have you considered this baptism?

John Williams baptised 03 Nov 1844   St Ceinwen
Father Hugh (labourer) and mother Hannah
Abode Glanyhys (which seems very close to the Menai bridge, unless there is more than 1 place with that name.)

https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/64721dc3f493fd37d2be6ce5/john-williams-baptism-anglesey-cerrigceinwen-1844-11-03?locale=en

[Neale1961]

Other brothers with parents Hugh (Labourer) and Hannah;  abode GlanYnys
Hugh baptised 31 mar 1839
William baptised 27 Mar 1842


1841 census for that family
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M77G-431

1851 census for that family
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGCQ-ZM4

[Neale1961]

No. As I look further, I don’t think this is right for your John Williams.
So he can be eliminated.

[liverpoolgenealogy]

Thank you for your suggestion 

Over the years, I've tried many options, but there are just so many John Williams in Anglesey that it is so difficult to pin the right one down, at least for me it has been, but that won't stop me trying!

Looking on BMD records trying to find a John Williams b. County Anglesey in 1845 turns up over 40 results! I'm not sure what district the Llansadwrn/Menai area would've been in, though. 3 districts in the county of Anglesey: Anglesey, Bangor and Carnarvon.

[rosie99]

Have you discounted this one in 1861 - Trefor Newygdd, Llansadwrn, Bangor, Anglesey,
I realise that John gives his fathers occupation as Labourer

Hugh    Williams   58   occ   Farmer of 40 acres employing 1 man   Anglesey, Wales
Jane   Williams   52   bn Beaumaris, Anglesey, Wales
John   Williams   19   bn   Llansadwrn, Anglesey, Wales
Mary A Williams   14   bn    Llansadwrn, Anglesey, Wales
Jane   Williams   12   bn     Llansadwrn, Anglesey, Wales
Elinor Williams   5   bn    Llansadwrn, Anglesey, Wales
Robert   Davis   Servant   13   bn   Pentraeth, Anglesey, Wales

RG09
Piece  4347
Folio 15
Page 7

The family can be found at that address in 1841 & 1851

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Think the witness is Thomas Herdman Morley (spellings vary a little - Hardman/Hartman, Marley) - his occupation varies from licensed victualler to bricklayer or setter. In Toxteth in 1881, but heads up to Wigan area later.

Important point is his wife Ann - maiden name Hughes, place of birth Anglesey (Llanbadrig according to 1901). Born c1846

And they have a son Hugh

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Thomas Morley
Father    William Morley

Ann Hughes
Father John Hughes farmer

Marriage Date    7 Apr 1871 Everton, St Peter

Witnesses Hugh Hughes, Bryan Lunt

added: 1871 census has them recorded working at the same public house. Ann b Llanbadrig

[Mabel Bagshawe]

I've got my Hughes and Williamses mixed up - but I suspect there must be some connection between them