Author Topic: 1911 England Census Summary Books  (Read 2618 times)

Offline MisterNick

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Re: 1911 England Census Summary Books
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 29 January 25 11:32 GMT (UK) »
This area is not one I am familiar with, either personally or within any research I've done over the years.

I too looked at directories as jonwarrn did, and doubt that schools churches etc would be listed with a number on a street on maps, directories, census returns etc - they were too recognisable to miss?

This page gives a snynopsis of the history of the school (use CTRL and F to search the page and look for Sacred Heart to go directly to the entry saves scrolling)
https://www.british-history.ac.uk/vch/middx/vol8/pp117-135

and though its not the same time frame as you are looking for, you can see the church, presbytery and school marked in 1901 on this Goad fire insurance map
https://www.oldmapsonline.org/en/City_of_London?gid=842bc6f5-eaa1-59a4-a2bb-20aef60fce90#position=18.3983/51.55004/-0.115082&year=1901

this page on the NLS gives info about the symbols etc on these maps and says that numbers parellel with the street are the house numbers - 4a Grove street, where your Alfred was, is clearly marked on that Goad map and is the other side of the road from the church
https://maps.nls.uk/towns/goad/abbreviations.html

Also check the 1921 census for Alfred who was in a convalescent home in Worthing, that tells you the name of his employer and where he worked. Whether employment records for London County Council still exist I don't know but the London Metropolitan Archives may be able to tell you

Boo

Thanks for the links.
There was definitely a school at the church at that time although it has now moved across the road and round the corner. 
I was trying to work out what I was looking at on the GOAD map and the legend. Looking from Georges St.;
As you say, the numbers parallel to the buildings are the house numbers, and so it would appear that 1, 3, 5, 7 are duplicated.
I am presuming that the no. 5 I am dealing with is on the right hand side opposite the church.
The houses on the left were built after the ones on the right. The ones on the right were there in 1874 whereas there was some sort of parkland opposite then.
With the exception of 8,  the houses on the right are two story with slate roofs. There is a one storey extension on the back of 4a, 4, 5, 6 & 7. Might this be the outside toilet?
5 seems to be larger than the others, although I can’t work out the 1 storey extension attached to it. I suppose if this one was divided into individual rooms it would make sense for the family (5 of them) to have 4a, and then my GGF moves into 5 when the family is split up
In the back garden of 4a there is a one storey building and in the back garden of 5 there is a one storey building that seems to have a felt roof.
Given the width of the houses, and available space to let light in, s it safe to assume they had one room at the front and one at the back both upstairs and downstairs.
Do you think they would open out onto the road rather than have a front garden

I think I now have a better picture in my mind of what these houses looked like.

Those maps were almost hypnotic when you’re looking for answers in them. Thanks

Thanks also for your additional posts I will work my way through them

Offline MisterNick

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Re: 1911 England Census Summary Books
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 29 January 25 11:43 GMT (UK) »
Lots of London directories on ancestry in London, England, City Directories, 1736-1943
They have some Islington directories up to 1905 to browse.

Is this going to work? :-\
I've attempted to make it magnifable to a larger size than originally.
Eden Grove in the 1910 PO London Directory.
https://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/iiif/2/p16445coll4:8836/full/1350,/0/default.jpg?page=165

Islington schools in 1910
https://specialcollections.le.ac.uk/iiif/2/p16445coll4:8839/full/1350,/0/default.jpg?page=515

From here you can download a 400 page guide to Islington streets history
https://friendsofim.com/2021/04/08/streets-with-a-story-the-book-of-islington/

Thanks for finding these. I think I need to understand directories a lot more going forward. I think it will also help to know where my grandfather and his sisters went to school before the girls went into the convent in Worthing. There doesn't seem to be any reason why he should not` have gone to Eden Grove, but thats not something I have picked up on yet.
The Grove Street numbers (I assume that is what they are) in the PO directory do not seem to align to the GOAD map numbers, and there aren't any entries for the lower end numbers.
Although I don't have the answer to my original question of school / church street number, I do now know they lived in a separate property.
I have gone through the Street document with "ctl. F" on Grove. there are 69 entries of varying types. The pertinent ones seem to suggest that Grove Street is now George's Street, which isn't the case from the Goad map.
Thanks for your help and for the additional information you provided.

Offline JenB

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Re: 1911 England Census Summary Books
« Reply #29 on: Wednesday 29 January 25 11:54 GMT (UK) »
Grove Street is now George's Street, which isn't the case from the Goad map.

Please look at my reply #17 https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=888660.msg7622445#msg7622445 and the map I posted.

Grove Street is now (part of) Eden Grove. The postal address of the Roman Catholic church is in Eden Grove, Holloway.

Although I don't have the answer to my original question of school / church street number,

I agree with Boo (reply #22) that it's very unlikely that the church and the school ever had a street number.
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Offline jonwarrn

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Re: 1911 England Census Summary Books
« Reply #30 on: Wednesday 29 January 25 13:05 GMT (UK) »
The address of the Sacred Heart church nowadays is 64 Eden Grove, London N7 8EN
The presbytery is number 62
Where the school was is now Claringbull Court at 66 Eden Grove

Planning report
https://democracy.islington.gov.uk/documents/s19237/Sacred%20Heart%20committee%20report%20final.pdf


Offline JenB

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Re: 1911 England Census Summary Books
« Reply #31 on: Wednesday 29 January 25 13:15 GMT (UK) »
The address of the Sacred Heart church nowadays is 64 Eden Grove, London N7 8EN
The presbytery is number 62
Where the school was is now Claringbull Court at 66 Eden Grove

Planning report
https://democracy.islington.gov.uk/documents/s19237/Sacred%20Heart%20committee%20report%20final.pdf

Time for a retreat on my part I think  ;D
Apologies for my error about numbering.

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Offline jonwarrn

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Re: 1911 England Census Summary Books
« Reply #32 on: Wednesday 29 January 25 13:49 GMT (UK) »
They are only the modern day numbers, Jen. Perhaps everything has to have one :-\

Offline MisterNick

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Re: 1911 England Census Summary Books
« Reply #33 on: Wednesday 29 January 25 14:19 GMT (UK) »
Grove Street is now George's Street, which isn't the case from the Goad map.

Please look at my reply #17 https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=888660.msg7622445#msg7622445 and the map I posted.

Grove Street is now (part of) Eden Grove. The postal address of the Roman Catholic church is in Eden Grove, Holloway.

Although I don't have the answer to my original question of school / church street number,

I agree with Boo (reply #22) that it's very unlikely that the church and the school ever had a street number.
Sorry JenB, I should have said that the linked document also contradicted your map. I saw the document just after I saw your map which started my confusion. If I didn't say it earlier, I did and the side by side function of your map very useful

Offline JenB

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Re: 1911 England Census Summary Books
« Reply #34 on: Wednesday 29 January 25 14:31 GMT (UK) »
Sorry JenB, I should have said that the linked document also contradicted your map.

Forgive me, I'm a bit lost.

Which map has been 'contradicted' and in what way?
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Offline MisterNick

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Re: 1911 England Census Summary Books
« Reply #35 on: Wednesday 29 January 25 15:01 GMT (UK) »
Sorry JenB, I should have said that the linked document also contradicted your map.

Forgive me, I'm a bit lost.

Which map has been 'contradicted' and in what way?

Sorry, thats probably my wording.

You and TickettyBoo posted two separate maps that concurred in that they said that Grove Street was now part of Eden Grove.

jonwarm posted a link to a comprehensive and well regarded document titled Streets with a Story. https://friendsofim.com/2021/04/08/streets-with-a-story-the-book-of-islington/
This document has numerous references to Eden Grove and several to Grove Street, but to me it suggests that Grove Street is now part of Georges Street. (Thus contradicting the maps) I may be reading it wrong though.