Marriage Squire Sutcliffe and Ellen Hartley

[mama]

I have been told that Squire Abraham Sutcliffe married Ellen Hartley at Kirkheaton on 18.11.1865.  If this information is correct can someone help me by looking up the GRO number so that I can order their marriage certificate.
Mama

[KathyM]

tHERE IS A MARRIAGE LISTED FOR

SQUIRE SUTCLIFFE - DECEMBER QUARTER 1865 at HUDDERSFIELD   9a 475

However, under HARTLEY there is no corresponding ref. no. that I can see.

[mama]

I actually applied for the marriage certificate and was also told that the wife was not Ellen Hartley.   Is there any way I can find out who the bride was? 
Mama

[mirl]

I found the following entry in the England 1871 census RG10/4371 Folio 81 p33

Cowcliffe Lane Huddersfield
Squire Sutcliffe   Head Mar 28
Ellen Sutcliffe      Wife  Mar 23
Martha Sutcliffe  Dau   Unm  4
Harry Sutcliffe    Son    Unm  2
Sam Sutcliffe      Son    Unm  2mths

This at least suggests that Squire Sutcliffe married an Ellen, and the GRO reference of Dec 1865 accounts for the age of the children.

I would apply for the marriage certificate again and leave the spouse field blank.  I know this is a risk, but it may be that she is shown as say Elizabeth Ellen, or the handwriting may not be clear enough for some-one to read Hartley.

Good luck, Colin

[mama]

Thankyou for your reply.  A good idea and I will try that!
I have searched the census for 1861 1871 1881 1901 and have his death cert.  He died in 1910 aged 58. British Death Certs. don't give much information unfortunately.
I live in Australia where they give date and place of birth parents name and even  name of issue.

[mama]

Applied for the marriage certificate of Squire Sutcliffe with what information and it came back that the bride was Ellen Berry.  In 1901 Ellen Sutcliffe was still alive.  So British Death Certs show the maiden name of the deceased?
Mama

[KathyM]

Death certificates shown only the name 'at death'......which can be frustrating, especially if the wife re-married after her husbands death.

Why did you think she was Ellen HARTLEY?

Were you going from one of the children's birth certificates ?

[mama]

Thankyou for your reply.  That was the name given on the death certificate of Harry Sutcliffe, my grandfather.
Mama

[JudyAnne]

Hi Mama

I've a few suggestions for you which are a bit a bit far-fetched but it's funny how something you've dismissed as improbable turns out to be correct.

1. What if Ellen Hartley married Mr. Berry who died and then married Squire Sutcliffe which would explain the different name on the certificate. Her name should have been given as Berry, formerly Hartley and she should be described as widow but I don't know how carefully things were recorded.
(I can't find a record of a Hartley/Berry marriage on FreeBMD and, if her age is correct on the 1871 census, she must have been married very young and for a very short time!)

2. Assuming she was Ellen Berry and that she and your grandfather outlived Squire, could she have re-married and her new name (Hartley) have been shown on his death certificate? It sounded as if you didn't know when she died so you won't know what name was on her death certificate. It may be worth searching for a marriage after 1910.

3. You say you were told that she married Squire Sutcliffe - could your informant have been muddled? FreeBMD shows that an Ellen Hartley married either John Sutcliffe or James Hartley in the 1st qtr of 1861 in Skipton (GRO ref 9a 61) It could mean that both John and Squire Sutcliffe married Ellen's and your informant got them the wrong way round. It's more likely to be a red herring! Is there a John Sutcliffe in your tree?

I hope this helps

Jud