John McEwan marries Isabella Smith in Troqueer, 1846 - Help!!

[Forfarian]

Hugh and Mary, and their daughter Phyllis, are in the 1851, 1861 and 1871 censuses, and all of them say that Hugh was born in Troqueer.

There's no listing of Hugh in the LDS 1881 census transcription at Scotland's People.

There are four deaths between 1871 and 1881 of Hugh Smith, born 1815 plus or minus 5 years: see screenshot.

There are no baptisms of Smiths, mother's surname McDougall, Kelly or Glen in Troqueer, but there are three baptisms of children in Troqueer to William Smith and Agnes Gilchrist; John 1815, Helen 1818 and William 1820.

Would it be worth a look to see if Hugh is a brother whose baptism record has not survived?

Also note two more death of Smiths with mother's surname Gilchrist in Loudoun, the same parish where Hugh's death is registered. Might they be sisters?

And there is John Smith, died 1892 in Keir aged 76, mother Gilchrist. In 1891 John Smith, 75, born Troqueer, is in Keir with wife and family.

[Forfarian]

I am registering on scotlandspeople to see if the marriage record offers any clues - is it correct that you can't get PDF downloads or suchlike? but just actual physical copies for £12?

No, that is not correct. You can get an image of original documents for £1.50 each, as long as they are old enough, which the ones you want are.

I will be surprised if the marriage record nails Isabella's parentage, but would be delighted to be proved wrong.

[climbingthewalls]

Probably being thick but I've found the record on scotlandspeople, the options are buy credits or order certificate, do I just buy credits to access the record and then download?

[climbingthewalls]

Hugh and Mary, and their daughter Phyllis, are in the 1851, 1861 and 1871 censuses, and all of them say that Hugh was born in Troqueer.

I decided to chase down the Hugh Smith potential brother link. I've now found 2 DNA matches against him which is very interesting and he is in their trees. It's obviously a weakish link but closer than I've ever been before to getting somewhere. Both of these 2 DNA matches have the father of Hugh as James Smith and Mary Reid (no citation), but no mention of an Isabella. Obviously take what Ancestry "suggests" as potentially wrong, but this looks good on face value. Will contact them to see to see how they got the info! Been looking at Maxwelltown on Google Maps as it seems they  lived around that area and very close to a non conformist church which again is a possible link this might be the right line.

[Forfarian]

Probably being thick but I've found the record on scotlandspeople, the options are buy credits or order certificate, do I just buy credits to access the record and then download?

You buy credits and download it on the spot. I think the minimum number of credits you can buy is 30, so you'll have enough to look at 4 more documents.

[Forfarian]

The grave they were buried in was part of the non-conformist section of the cemetary, so wondering if that is the reason why records pertaining to them are difficult to find.

Maybe that might account for difficulty finding records in England.

But remember that the term "non-conformist" specifically means someone who does not conform to the Church of England. It is irrelevant and meaningless in Scotland, not least because neither the Church of Scotland nor any of the other assorted Presbyterian denominations conforms to the Church of England. Nor, of course, do Roman Catholics.

[Forfarian]

John and Isabella McEwan are in Liverpool in the 1851 census, with Robert, 8, born Scotland and John, 3 and Isabella, 1, both born Liverpool. I have yet to find them in 1861, or John in 1871.

Robert might be interesting. Obviously, if he was 8, he was born before the marriage of John and Isabella, so it might be worth a trawl through the Troqueer Kirk Session records to see if there is a record of an illegitimate child to either John or Isabella in 1841/1846.

[climbingthewalls]

John and Isabella McEwan are in Liverpool in the 1851 census, with Robert, 8, born Scotland and John, 3 and Isabella, 1, both born Liverpool. I have yet to find them in 1861, or John in 1871.

Robert might be interesting. Obviously, if he was 8, he was born before the marriage of John and Isabella, so it might be worth a trawl through the Troqueer Kirk Session records to see if there is a record of an illegitimate child to either John or Isabella in 1841/1846.

Yes, I saw this - but as is the way with census records (it appears) their ages jump around a fair bit!  I have done a lot of digging into this and I am not 100% sure if Robert was actually their child. There are a few people who think he was son of a Peter McEwan from Barony (Glasgow) so potentially he came down to Liverpool with his Uncle? or there were some errors on the records. I've tied myself up in knots over the years with this!! The reason I am sidetracked with the nonconformist issue is that Isabella McEwan, who is the daughter of John and Isabella marries David Hughes Williams - and he was part of really strong welsh non conformist / calvinistic methodist family, which makes me think they would have had to have similar religious beliefs. But who knows! I wasn't aware of the situation in Scotland, but in Wales lots of the non conformist records have been hard to track down.  Thanks for your help though, very much appreciated,

[Forfarian]

Yes, I saw this - but as is the way with census records (it appears) their ages jump around a fair bit!  I have done a lot of digging into this and I am not 100% sure if Robert was actually their child.

Well, the original census does say explicitly that he is (John's) son.

There are a few people who think he was son of a Peter McEwan from Barony (Glasgow) so potentially he came down to Liverpool with his Uncle?

Now, I wonder where that could have come from?

There is only one baptism in Glasgow of a Robert whose father's name is Peter: a Roman Catholic record from St Mary's, Glasgow. Date of birth 6 October 1845, mother Euphemia Ruffell (which is a mistranscription of Russell). This Robert is in the 1851 census in Glasgow, aged 5, with his parents and two siblings, so you can confidently eliminate him from your research.