Florence Gerrell, supposedly born in Byker c1892

[Silverhawk]

Do we think the engineer who died on the Said could be Andrew? The dates appear to line up. The Elizabeth and Ann has a new captain in the November, and Andrew dies in December. Perhaps something else happened which demoted him???

[JenB]

A bit more information about the Elizabeth and Ann and Captain Andrew Renwick (if indeed he's the one we're looking for)

According to the newspapers the ship's registration number was 70248.

Which leads to this: https://www.tynebuiltships.co.uk/E-Ships/elizabethann1876.html

This reveals that she was built in North Shields in 1875/1876 and that Andrew Renwick was a co-owner with Thomas R R Robson, who in 1871 was described as an engineering draughtsman and in 1881 as a mechanic engineer.

By 1882 she was owned by a John Mitcheson of Newcastle and then was purchased and re-registered in Maryport on 3rd December 1883 by a Wilfrid Hine who was a ship owner and broker of that town.

[jonwarrn]

More exciting extra info (hopefully)
Going back..

I searched freebmd for Gerrell and the only other instance seems to be this marriage.
Marriages Dec 1914   
Gerrell    Violet M    Reed    Newcastle T.    10b   145   
REED    Albert    Gerrell    Newcastle T.    10b   145

Violet's birth reg shows she was illegitimate.  Violet May Gerrell b Dec qtr 1893 Gateshead 10A 925

A basic transcript of the marriage is on FamilySeach.
It was on 7 October 1914 at South Heaton.
Violet said she was 20 years old, and her father was Thomas Gerrell.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QP7V-CGKH

Were there any children? Possibly not.
In 1939 Violet M Reed is said to be married but is on her own at 17 Danby Gardens, Newcastle.
Date of birth 8 Nov 1893

Likely that Violet had been adopted, but as she was the only Violet May registered in Gateshead in 1893, she might be findable if her names were kept.

So in 1901 living at 64 Avondale Road in Byker is Violet M Clark, age 8, born Durham Gateshead.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XSMT-GJJ

Parents Arthur and Matilda, nee Norton. But there seems to be no birth registration for Violet, nor for one of the sons.

In 1911 she is still in Byker with Arthur and Matilda.
Violet May Clark, 17, Milliner, born Gateshead Durham.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XWM8-DK1

Anyway, there is a Newcastle school record for her. Raby Street Council Schools (Infants)
Admitted 9.1.99
Violet Clark
Father Arthur
Address 132 Raby St
Date of Birth 8.11.93

So a matching birth date with Violet M Reed in 1939!

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Which son is missing? Norman Arthur on the censuses is registered as Arthur Norman. Alfred has mmn Morton (typo, presumably)

Something doesn't quite add up - 1911 says 5 children, 2 dead. I can find 5 birth registrations - plus  "daughter" Violet from the censuses.

One is this child

CLARK, ARTHUR
mmn        NORTON     
Q1 1890
NEWCASTLE-UPON-TYNE  Volume 10B  Page 178

Possible death the same quarter

Norman and Alfred are alive in 1911.  Baby Irene on the 1901census dies in 1902

The fifth registered birth is

CLARK, MATILDA  EVELINE
mmn      NORTON     
Q2 1893
TYNEMOUTH  Volume 10B  Page 191

I can't find a death - I did wonder if she was renamed Violet, but although the age is the same, she was born before Violet's October birthdate. Irene's middle name is Matilda - I'd find it odd for them to use it again if the previous Matilda was alive

[mckha489]

Are you thinking Violet is also a daughter of Florence who died 1894?

[jonwarrn]

Which son is missing? Norman Arthur on the censuses is registered as Arthur Norman. Alfred has mmn Morton (typo, presumably)

OK, I take that one back! Well spotted.
But still there is no birth registration for Violet May Clark, and it looks like she has the same birthday as VM Gerrell / Reed.
Also, I didn't see any convincing sign of of a marriage for her 1911-21

Are you thinking Violet is also a daughter of Florence who died 1894?

I really don't know. It may be a bit of a tight squeeze. But just in case she was, or perhaps a different mother who could be related to Florence.
I was just looking for something to do, really. Sorry!

[Dundee]

The fifth registered birth is

CLARK, MATILDA  EVELINE
mmn      NORTON     
Q2 1893
TYNEMOUTH  Volume 10B  Page 191

I can't find a death - I did wonder if she was renamed Violet

Death

CLARK, MATILDA  EVELINE
Age 0 
GRO Reference: 1893  S Quarter in TYNEMOUTH  Volume 10B  Page 124

Debra 

[jonwarrn]

I have now noticed (belatedly!) that Durham Records Online have 4 baptisms for parents Arthur and Matilda Clark.
In Tynemouth
1893 Matilda Eveline, abode 59 Long Row
In Newcastle
1896 Alfred Valentine, 132 Raby St
1897 Arthur Norman, 132 Raby St
1901 Irene Matilda, 64 Avondale Rd

[Mabel Bagshawe]

The fifth registered birth is

CLARK, MATILDA  EVELINE
mmn      NORTON     
Q2 1893
TYNEMOUTH  Volume 10B  Page 191

I can't find a death - I did wonder if she was renamed Violet

Death

CLARK, MATILDA  EVELINE
Age 0 
GRO Reference: 1893  S Quarter in TYNEMOUTH  Volume 10B  Page 124

Debra 

Would help if I looked in the right district!

Presume they got their living and dead children columns mixed up in 1911

So clearly, despite the censuses, Violet is not their daughter given she was born a few months after Matilda