John James McDonald & Jemima McDonald

[dippitybix]

Hi all,

I'm looking for some help in regards to John James McDonald born Hoddom 15 Nov 1867 and his wife Jemima McDonald MS McDonald also, born 4 November 1865 Ecclefechan. Jemima's birth certificate has her name as "Jamsie" for some reason.

According to the birth certificate of 2 of their children I have, they married in Lockerbie 1892 29th November. However I cannot find any trace of this marriage - perhaps they didn't officially marry as I believe that they closely related.

I've worked out they had the following children but believe they had more than what I've determined correct so far.

The middle names names Graham, Carson, McKay and Muir all relate to the family.

William Graham McDonald Born 1893 St Rollox
Margaret Carson McDonald Born 1896-1899 St Rollox
Agnes McDonald Born 1896 St Rollox
Henry Muir McDonald Born 1901 St Rollox
Elizabeth McKay McDonald Born 1902 St Rollox
Margaret Carson McDonald Born 1904-1965

it's quite complicated but I believe Jemima is the daughter of John James McDonald's half brother, James McDonald born ABT 1838 Annan to William McDonald and and Jane/Jean Jardine.  John James McDonald was born to William and his 2nd wife Margaret Graham.

John James, Jemima and their children are on the
1901 census here:

Their lodger John Inman is also a relative.

1901 census
31, Gourlay Street, Glasgow RD St Rollox
John James McDonald Head 32 Electrician b Ecclefechan Dumfriesshire
Jemima McDonald wife 33 b Ecclefechan, Dumfrisshire
William G McDonald son   7 b Glasgow
Agnes McDonald daughter   2 b Glasgow
John Inman   Lodger 21 b Dumfriesshire


Ideally I'm looking for John James McDonald & Jemima's death and any other info.

Many thanks

[dippitybix]

This this could be the death of Jemima/Jamsie
MCDONALD
JAMSIE
74
F
1940
644 / 11 / 307
Possilpark
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Order certificate

Edit: just purchased the certificate and it's correct

[Forfarian]

You say that 2 of the birth certificates give as the date of marriage. What do the other birth certificates say?

[kall]

On Scotlands people there is a marriage in Dryfesdale in 1882 for John McDonald to Jemima Jamieson

[Neale1961]

1911 census Springburn (Lanark)  ref 644/6 5/ 15
•   John James MacDONALD  43
•   Jemima MacDONALD   45
•   William Graham MacDONALD   17
•   Agnes MacDONALD   12
•   Elizabeth McKay MacDONALD   8
•   Margaret Carson MacDONALD   6
•   Effie Johnston MacDONALD   2
•   John James MacDONALD   0


1921 census Possilpark (Lanark) ref 644/7 24/ 7 to 644/7 24/ 8
•   John J MacDONALD   53
•   Jemima MacDONALD   54
•   William G MacDONALD   27
•   Agnes MacDONALD   22
•   Eliza M. MacDONALD   19
•   Margaret C MacDONALD   16
•   Effie J MacDONALD   13
•   John J MacDONALD   10


Baby - Henry Muir McDonald died 1901 (Maryhill)

[Neale1961]

Jemima's birth certificate has her name as "Jamsie" for some reason.

I suppose she was named "Jamsie" after her father James, who had just recently died.

[Forfarian]

Edit: just purchased the certificate and it's correct

Good.

Does it confirm that her parents were William McD and J*an* Jardine?

And does it say whether she was married to, or the widow of, John James McD?

Have you checked the two deaths on SP of John James M*cDonald born 1867 plus or minus one year? I think the one in Milton (Glasgow) is more likely to be yours because https://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp says that the one who died in Burghead on 6 October 1932 was born 1 May 1867 and married in Elgin on 10 December 1887 to Margaret Ann Ogilvie.

[dippitybix]

Edit: just purchased the certificate and it's correct

Good.

Does it confirm that her parents were William McD and J*an* Jardine?

And does it say whether she was married to, or the widow of, John James McD?

Have you checked the two deaths on SP of John James M*cDonald born 1867 plus or minus one year? I think the one in Milton (Glasgow) is more likely to be yours because https://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu.asp says that the one who died in Burghead on 6 October 1932 was born 1 May 1867 and married in Elgin on 10 December 1887 to Margaret Ann Ogilvie.

Apologies for the late reply, we've had no electricity since the storm on Saturday!

Her death certificate confirms her parents were James McDonald and Margaret McDonald nee Carson. It also states she was married to John James McDonald - electrician. Their son John James McDonald Jr was present at her death.

I purchased the Milton death record for JJMC - electrician retired widow of Jemima McDonald. Adding more confusion into the mix it states his father was William McDonald - Horse Dealer (I have William's profession as a weaver, then later on he became a Carter) and Agnes McDonald nee dunlop. His son JJMC Jr also present at his death.

I believe his parents were actually William, correct, but his mother was Margaret McDonald nee Graham I don't know who Agnes Dunlop is I have not come across this name before.

If it is correct and he married his half brother's daughter I suppose it wouldn't have been talked about. Perhaps their children never knew? 

William McDonald John James McDonald and James McDonald's father was married/partnered 3 times.

1st Wife Jane/Jean Jardine they had the following children:

Elizabeth McDonald 1828-1856
John McDonald 1831-1865
Jane McDonald 1833-1906
Mary McDonald 1835-1862
James McDonald 1838- 1865 Father of Jamsie/Jemima

Jane/Jean Jardine must have died - don't know the date.

He then married Margaret Graham when he was 59 years old 2 Dec 1863.

They had the following children - confirmed by birth certificates from SP

Agnes McDonald 1866-1889
John James McDonald 1867-1962 Married to Jamsie/Jemima

Margaret Graham died 1870.

He then married Elizabeth McKay 8 Nov 1870 and died (most probably) in Carlisle at the Fusehill Workhouse in 1873.



 

[Neale1961]

Yes, I think you are correct. William’s mother was Margaret Graham – and of course the Graham name gets passed down and used for middle names in offspring.
Mistakes are commonly made by the informant on deaths, because they didn’t know, or got confused with some other family elder they heard stories about.

I also agree that John James and Jemima were related. She was his half- niece.
I believe this would have been a "prohibited marriage"  -  and explains why you have found no record. It may also explain why they moved away from their home town, and went to Glasgow where they would not be known.

Hope everything is safe and sound after the storm.