Author Topic: Alma Blanche Lukey / Alma Blanche Kelly b1867 - Death record help  (Read 1705 times)

Offline jo1962

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Re: Alma Blanche Lukey / Alma Blanche Kelly b1867 - Death record help
« Reply #27 on: Wednesday 04 December 24 15:59 GMT (UK) »
I wouldn't worry about year of birth being a few years out, in my experience it's quite common. Quite often people didn't know for sure themselves! And it suited them to add or deduct a few years for work or other such reasons. I had one ancestor who knocked 20 years off when marrying a much younger woman  :P

Offline jonwarrn

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Re: Alma Blanche Lukey / Alma Blanche Kelly b1867 - Death record help
« Reply #28 on: Wednesday 04 December 24 18:12 GMT (UK) »
The text in the article says "Mr and Mrs Kelly" - no W Kelly other than when referring to William

Yes, my mistake when originally typing it up.
Coverage of that newspaper available on BNA (and findmypast), and nothing for 1920 at the moment
https://britishnewspaperarchive.co.uk/titles/newton-and-earlestown-guardian

Offline SplanK

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Re: Alma Blanche Lukey / Alma Blanche Kelly b1867 - Death record help
« Reply #29 on: Friday 06 December 24 09:01 GMT (UK) »
A quick Friday morning update on this!  First, we want to thank everybody who has helped/contributed in any way to unpick Alma's story!  I think we would have been perpetually stuck with this one given the potential unofficial surname change!

The crucial link which binds Alma to the Cross name is the WW1 pension records, but somewhat more importantly the PoW information for her son William, which gave a DoB of 23 Jul 1897 (officially, the year is wrong by 2 years, but given the variety of years we have been looking at  ;D....)

This DoB in this PoW document perfectly ties to a 1939 record where we find a William Kelly of the same DoB with Margaret Gertrude Higham and a number of children, and tracing backwards located their marriage in 1919, Wigan.

However, the curveball is this marriage shows William as "William Joseph Kelly" - Pre marriage, there is no suggestion he ever had a middle name and when researching some 6 months ago, we originally discounted this pairing as the wrong William!

With this new information I needed access to this marriage certificate to see what was on it, but I remained on the fence about ordering, I generally only order paper certs where there is an almost certainty that it's the correct person.

I happened to be looking at Ancestry Thrulines for my wife's DNA and stumbled across a suggestion of a match that routed through Alma and then William Kelly - why we didn't explorer this earlier I don't know!  The tree appeared to be good and detailed enough tree, so I started doing my due diligence to verify the information.  A few things stuck out - IE very specific dates for BMD's.  I decided to reach out to the creator of the tree and manager of the DNA record, explaining the position and the information found so far.

This morning, they sent me a number of certificates, including William and Mary's marriage (4th Aug 1919) which shows William as a coal hewer, and his father Patrick Kelly (deceased - coal hewer)

Bingo!  A marriage certificate and a verified family path down to the DNA match via William Kelly confirms that the uncovered story of Alma post 1911 and that she at some point she became Alma Cross and partnered with George Cross!!

As for her daughter Lily Elizabeth, born 1907, she 100% won't be Patrick's, and I suspect that George Cross won't be her father either, although clearly had a hand in looking after her (although using the term loosely based on the news articles!).  Speaking with my mother in law, she explained how the neglect article 'rang true' with Lily as she was always precious about making sure that no food was ever wasted and it was always known that the family line had a rough upbringing.

I am sure there might be a handful of new finds as we continue to dig and I will 100% share them here as appropriate.  Chances are myself and my wife will take a trip down to Newton Cemetery in the coming months as its not too far away, to see if (and it's a big if!!) there is a headstone for Alma and George, as well to see if we can locate the communal resting place/marker of Patrick.
Harding/Jones/Walters/Coates in Stoke on Trent
Calderbank/Baxendale/Swift/Massey in Chorley and Standish

Offline jo1962

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Re: Alma Blanche Lukey / Alma Blanche Kelly b1867 - Death record help
« Reply #30 on: Friday 06 December 24 09:20 GMT (UK) »
Congratulations! I am so pleased this has come together for you. Yes, please keep us posted, I would love to know more  :)
We rootchatters are a tenacious lot and never give up so feel free to post again if you need any further help.


Offline SplanK

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Re: Alma Blanche Lukey / Alma Blanche Kelly b1867 - Death record help
« Reply #31 on: Saturday 07 December 24 11:45 GMT (UK) »
Further evidence!

Curiosity got the better of me, but I wanted to know who registered George Cross death.... I'm glad I did!

Quote
George Cross - Died 11th Apr 1920 at infirmary, Warrington.
Last address 84 Mercer Street, Newton, and he was a bricklayers labourer.

Died of Acute pulmonary pneumonia

Reported by P Kelly, stepson, 84 Mercer Street, Newton on the 12th Apr.

P Kelly, I will assume to be Patrick Kelly, b 1904

Patrick Kelly is found in 1921 with Lily Elizabeth, both living with their brother John, his wife and children at 26 Orchard Street, Wigan
Harding/Jones/Walters/Coates in Stoke on Trent
Calderbank/Baxendale/Swift/Massey in Chorley and Standish

Offline jo1962

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Re: Alma Blanche Lukey / Alma Blanche Kelly b1867 - Death record help
« Reply #32 on: Saturday 07 December 24 13:36 GMT (UK) »
Bingo!  I think that concludes what happened to Alma Kelly and you can safely say that she and Alma Cross are one and the same person  :)

Offline jonwarrn

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Re: Alma Blanche Lukey / Alma Blanche Kelly b1867 - Death record help
« Reply #33 on: Saturday 07 December 24 23:19 GMT (UK) »
Yes, I agree, that's excellent news.
Well done for getting George's death certificate, and for tracking - and pinning! - down Willliam Kelly.
Wishing you luck when you get to Newton cemetery, and do let us know how you get on.
John

Offline SplanK

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Re: Alma Blanche Lukey / Alma Blanche Kelly b1867 - Death record help
« Reply #34 on: Tuesday 10 December 24 07:06 GMT (UK) »
the Mrs and I had a free day yesterday so went on the hunt for Alma's burial location (its a 30 minute drive, and a chance to nip into ikea was too tempting  ;D), along with 2 of her first husband Patrick (1854-1903) children (Patrick 1892-1894) and Thomas (1897-1897)

We didn't expect to find a marker, many people don't have them and knowing the family background there wasn't likely the money to pay for one.

In terms of her first husband and her children - we could not identify the areas at all!  Im awaiting a response from the council to see if they can help identify the location and chances are we will nip in the future.

Alma and George, again unmarked, appear to be in a location with other unmarked stones....  Using the few marked graves as a reference, we identified the rough areas where they are located.

Documented on FaG
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/277124435/alma-cross
Harding/Jones/Walters/Coates in Stoke on Trent
Calderbank/Baxendale/Swift/Massey in Chorley and Standish