Alma Blanche Lukey / Alma Blanche Kelly b1867 - Death record help

[SplanK]

The burial record for Alma Cross - jury still out.

I noted that the record was twinned with a 2nd burial for a George cross who passed ~1 month later with a burial date of 16/04/1920....

the William Kelly WW1 pension record document also sparked an interest - in the grand scheme of things, not many people with Alma as the first name, and the chances of having a son with the same name and estimated DoB as the one I'm looking for, in roughly the right place......

When doing a search for a marriage, I could not find anything which immediately jumped out, although I did limit my search to between 1911 and 1920.  I also note I could not immediately find a 1911 record for an Alma Cross... but I've seen name changes before without marriage so I didn't add too much weight to it.

I took a punt on ordering the death cert for Alma Cross in the hope the informant maybe of use/give a clue - unfortunately, it's inconclusive as it lists the informant as George Cross, husband.

Alma Cross passed 4-Mar-1920 at 84 Mercer Street, Newton, aged 46.  Wife of George Cross, she is listed as being a Labourer at Calico Print Works.  Cause of death Malignant disease of the liver, and the informant was George Cross (husband) who was present at death.

One thing that stood out here is the bit I have highlighted.  It suggested Alma was working.  Whilst liver disease is a tick 'in the right direction of what we know about her upbringing, working at a print works seems a bit of a stretch given all of the censuses I have found for her either lists Housekeeper, or nothing at all.....

[jonwarrn]

Hi
William Kelly again, this time in the Newton and Earlestown Guardian, 21 June 1918
From free ocr text (all I have)
Two missing Newton soldiers have written home to say that they are prisoners of war, viz.: Pte Wm. Kelly, of 84 Mercer Street, and...

There is also a story in the same newspaper, 28 August 1914
A fine was imposed on George Cross, of the Hand and Banner Yard, for not sending his seven-year old daughter to school....

Mentions his wife as well, but neither she nor the daughter were named as far as I could tell. I don't know how close Hand and Banner Yard was to Unsworths Yard, hopefully not far.
Could that seven year old have been your Lily Elizabeth?   It's possible at least.

[SplanK]

Thanks - Just managed to get access to those articles in full... as you say not fully conclusive but the dots are 100% there

It's just joining them up with the 'smoking gun' evidence, or at least being able to prove the other way!

There is something itching my brain about the William Kelly/Alma pension notes and then sending a letter to an address listed on Alma's death cert!!!  I note FindMyPast has WW1 PoW records, I did do a search last night which did some results of potential interest, however as I don't have a FindMyPast sub, I can't access the full details other than name and record type   I might have to await a free weekend or just sub for a month to see if there is anything of interest there.

If I get time later, I might see if I can crawl through the 1911 and 1921 censuses for some of the addresses listed to see if any clues are hiding there.



Still looking for a marriage between a George Cross and an 'Alma' or 'Blanche'.  The school attendance article may have helped narrow the range to look through, although I do have to keep in mind that the 7 year old and mother might be somebody else completely and it just be a coincidence!

[jo1962]

It's very possible that Alma just adopted George Cross's name without marrying him. I have ancestors who have done this. I found George in the 1911 census living with family. He is listed as single so I think you can rule out a case of bigamy!  I have full subscription to find my past, please feel free to private message me if I can be of help.
Jo

[SplanK]

It's very possible that Alma just adopted George Cross's name without marrying him. I have ancestors who have done this. I found George in the 1911 census living with family. He is listed as single so I think you can rule out a case of bigamy!  I have full subscription to find my past, please feel free to private message me if I can be of help.
Jo

PM sent  

Would you mind sharing where he was living please in the 1911 record you have found?  Been up to my eyeballs with work so not had a chance to take a look at this myself yet!

Edit: 84 Mercer Street in:
1911 census appears to be occupied by a Travers family
1921 census appears to be occupied by a Huges family.

[jo1962]

George Cross in 1911 is living at 3 Nelson Street, Earlestown. His year of birth is given as 1873. His occupation is Vulcan foundry labourer. He was born in East Butterwick, lincolnshire. Also present at the address are:
Household members (6 people)

First name(s)   Last name   Relationship to head   Marital status   Sex   Age   Birth year   Occupation   Birth place
Thomas   Carlin   Head   Married   Male   34   1877   Blast furnace man   St Helens Lancashire
Mary Ann   Carlin   Wife   Married   Female   26   1885   Housewife   Newton Le Willows Lancashire
Thomas   Carlin   Son   -   Male   4   1907   -   Earlestown Lancashire
Elizabeth   Carlin   Daughter   -   Female   0   1911   -   Earlestown Lancashire
Arthur Henry   Faulkner   Relative   Single   Male   21   1890   Sugar works labour   Lincoln City of Lincolnshire

I would question whether George is really related to the Carlin family, they were all born locally however George and Arthur Faulkner were not.

[SplanK]

Thanks Jo!  I think we may have glimped at that one last night but figured the DoB was 6 years out compared to DoB the death index give us, and we had nothing else to go on so left it.

Lookup up addresses and their proximity to one another from the various sources:

1871: Alma: Cornwall
1881: Alma: Mercers Row, Newton
1890: Alma: Gas Street (no reference as to exactly where, but marriage was registered in Warrington so I assume Newton still)
1891: Alma: Mount Tabor, Leigh
1901: Alma: 17 Vista Road, Newton
1902: Alma: Reportedly wounding neighbour Marie Kenny at Hazel-Grove, Newton
1903: Patrick Kelly: Death cert 17 Aug 1903 - 17 Hazel Grove, Newton
1906: Alma: Suez Street, Newton
1911: Alma: 117 Crow Lane, Newton
1914: Alma: Cross/William Kelly WW1 pension: Hunsworth/Unsworth Yard
1914: George Cross with 'mother and 7 year old': Hand and Banner Yard
1920: Alma Cross: 84 Mercer Street

1911 for Alma: 117 Crow Lane
Suggested death location 84 Mercer Street.

Mercer Street is off Crow Lane
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=17.0&lat=53.45788&lon=-2.62348&layers=168&b=ESRIWorld&o=100&marker=53.45788,-2.62348

Vista road and Hazel Grove:
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.4&lat=53.45893&lon=-2.64490&layers=6&b=ESRIWorld&o=100&marker=53.45897,-2.64442


Seuz Street is a bit further away - although the absolute irony is Suez Street is off Alma Street 
https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=18.6&lat=53.45103&lon=-2.64125&layers=168&b=ESRIWorld&o=100&marker=53.45103,-2.64059

The Hand and Banner Yard, I cant immediately find it on the map, however looking on BNA for the yard name returns quite a few results, but these caught my eye:

DEATH OF MRS. bAGNILL
... T. J. Gillespie, Sarah Jane Shaw, a married woman,living apart from her husband,was charged with being drunk in the Hand and Banner yard, High-st., Newton, atl2 20, on Spnday morning last. She was fined 2s. 6J. and costs. The evidence disclosed a shocking ...

Published: Saturday 02 July 1892
Newspaper: St. Helens Examiner
County: Lancashire, England
Type: Article | Words: 720 | Page: 5 | Tags: none

Sales by Auction. yae ypw folio° . WeetiP regy r S a° (Jai ' ut wh ics. R nd S,
... RENT, £3 16s. 6d. a THOSE SIX LEASEHOLD MESSU'Nos-•0 or DWELLING-HOCSES situate and being rt e „ A 2,3 , 4, 5 and 6 Hand and Banner Yard. High-14,7t, Newton-le-Willows, in the occupation of Messrs. etl, Howell, Singleton and others. c'ss Annual Rents £53 ...

Published: Saturday 12 March 1910
Newspaper: St. Helens Examiner
County: Lancashire, England
Type: Article | Words: 3171 | Page: 4, 5 | Tags: none

WATER CDMMITTEE,
... granted to (a) Mr Richard Jones, of 6, Bridge-street, Earlestown, for the use and occupation of premises situate at the Hand and Banner-yard, High-street, Newton-le-Willows ; (b) Mr George Wilde, of 52, Legh-street, Earlestown, for premises situate at the ...

Published: Friday 07 November 1902
Newspaper: St. Helens Examiner
County: Lancashire, England
Type: Article | Words: 1002 | Page: 5 | Tags: none

I think those samples above are enough to show that this Hand and Banner Yard is off High Street, which is right next to Mercer Street!  Its the same with Unsworth Yard...

It happened 50 years ago
... following properties for human habitation until in the judgment of the council they were made fit: three cottages in Unsworth’s yard, off High Street, Newton; two cottages in Brown’s yard, off High Street; one cottage in Gee's yard, off High Street; one ...

Published: Friday 08 June 1962
Newspaper: Newton and Earlestown Guardian
County: Lancashire, England
Type: Article | Words: 177 | Page: 6 | Tags: none

[jonwarrn]

I missed this
Newton and Earlestown Guardian, 31 May 1918 (tidied up free text)
MISSING. PTE. W. KELLY. Mr. and Mrs. Kelly, of Mercer Street, Newton, have received word officially that their son, Pte. W. Kelly,of the 6th Connaught Rangers, has been posted as missing gince the 21st March last. Pte. Kelly, who was educated at the Catholic School, and is 22 years of age next month, has been in the Army since the outbreak of war, and has been, wounded three times. He formerly worked at the Collieries of Messrs Richd. Evans and Co (is this the end of it?)

So Mr and Mrs Kelly isn't right, or is it just a mistake?

Possible birth? This would make him the right age for the William who was in the ASC for a very short period in 1914. But would be 23, not 22, on his birthday in 1918!
KELLY, WILLIAM       
Mother's Maiden Surname: LUKE 
GRO Reference: 1895  S Quarter in WARRINGTON  Volume 08C  Page 198

Couple of records for William Kelly, 2610, of the Connaught Rangers / 6th Conn Rangers, in the free index to Prisoners of War on findmypast.

ADDED
Link to medal index card, which is free on ancestry (need to be registered)
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/1262/records/70992

[SplanK]

Yep, that his birth record I have attributed to William on my tree, son of Alma + Patrick.

The text in the article says "Mr and Mrs Kelly" - no W Kelly other than when referring to William?

However an oddity im looking at is that GRO has his birth registered in 1895, and a transcription of the PoW record shows a birth date of 1897.  1901  census suggests 1896 and 1911 suggests 1893!  It's likely a mistake either in documentation or more than likely, simply not known - given the massive variation of DoB's we have seen for this family so far, im very much leaning the way of 'its about right!

I have also found who I think William might be in 1939, DoB the same given on the PoW notes (23rd July 1897 in 1939 vs 27th July 1897 in PoW), marriage to a Mary (possibly nee Higham), documented as working in a colliery but moved over to Yorkshire!