Author Topic: How old was Grace O'Brien?  (Read 1403 times)

Online mckha489

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Re: How old was Grace O'Brien?
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 30 November 24 08:49 GMT (UK) »
A nice tidy bit of work Neale1961!

Following on from George McClean Robertson
Whose birth might be

ROBERTSON
GEORGE MCLEAN
MCLAREN
M
1875
363 / 22
Kilspindie

There is also an interesting marriage
MCLAREN
GRACE
ROBERTSON
JAMES
1871
644 / 8 / 182
Anderston

But OP will need to do the hard yards and buy some of those certs in the correct working back order. See Forfarian’s link in reply #1

Offline Neale1961

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Re: How old was Grace O'Brien?
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 30 November 24 09:42 GMT (UK) »
I looked at a Peter Robertson to Grace McLean marriage in 1861, but didn’t see a child named Grace.
So haven’t found the link yet, but we are getting closer :)
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline Neale1961

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Re: How old was Grace O'Brien?
« Reply #11 on: Saturday 30 November 24 10:07 GMT (UK) »
Another possibility worth investigating?

SP index lists the birth of Grace Robertson Cooper in 1886 in St Clement (Dundee) 282/3/616


Yes, well worth considering. Her birth may have been registered like that, but she was known as Grace Cooper Robertson. Grace C. Robertson, …. And she decided to make the “C” stand for Cecilia, to hide an illegitimate birth. Speculation at the moment, but quite possible.
You would need to look at the birth certificate.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Online Forfarian

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Re: How old was Grace O'Brien?
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 30 November 24 11:49 GMT (UK) »
Brilliant stuff! You've all been very busy while I've been asleep.

1881 Census in Dundee: John M Cowper, 49; wife Mary, 33, born Arbroath; daughter Eliza, 12; son Samuel, 5; daughter Jessie A, 3, father-in-law Samuel Sullivan, 59, born Ireland.

1891 Census in Dundee: Mary Cooper, 42, widow, born Forfar; Samuel, son, 17; Jessie, daughter, 13; John, son, 6; Grace, daughter 4; all born Dundee.

1901: Mary Cooper, 56, born Arbroath; daughter Jessie, 23; son John, 17; daughter Grace, 15; all born Dundee.

Births in Dundee, father Co*per, mother Sullivan
John 1870, died 1873
Mary 1872, died 1873
Samuel 1874
Jessie Alexander 1877
Alexander Speed 1881, died 1884

John Matthewson Cooper married Mary Sullivan in 1867 in Arbroath. John Matthewson Cooper died in Rhynd in 1882 aged 50. (Rhynd is a parish just south of Perth, between the River Tay and the River Earn.)

No death of a Mary Sullivan or Co*per indexed at Scotland's People, which is consistent with Mary having died in Canada.

So it looks as if John and Grace were both illegitimate, born after the death of their mother's husband. Grace's birth certificate will clarify this. It's also indexed as Grace Robertson Sullivan. See screenshot. If it says she was born on 19 July, I think that would nail it.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline Neale1961

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Re: How old was Grace O'Brien?
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 30 November 24 14:20 GMT (UK) »
That all looks good Forfarian. You’ve tied all the loose ends together. All makes sense.
After hours searching through shipping records, my eyes were blurry, and I could no longer think straight.
Isn’t it good that we can “pass the baton” onto the next shift.  :)
Hopefully Oscar will do his part and post the birth record.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Online Forfarian

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Re: How old was Grace O'Brien?
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 30 November 24 17:51 GMT (UK) »
A George McLean ROBERTSON (age 32) died in Errol in 1908.
If that is the husband of Jessie, half sister of Grace, she must have emigrated leaving her husband behind if she arrived in Canada in 1907?

I'm waiting with bated breath for Oscar to post Grace's birth certificate. (I had run out of SP credits and for reasons I fail to understand my credit card has been blocked ???)
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline Neale1961

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Re: How old was Grace O'Brien?
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 30 November 24 18:04 GMT (UK) »
Jessie with 2 sons and mother arrived in Canada in Aug 1908, not 1907.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

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Re: How old was Grace O'Brien?
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 30 November 24 18:19 GMT (UK) »
I had a couple of credits.

SS

Online mckha489

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Re: How old was Grace O'Brien?
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 30 November 24 19:09 GMT (UK) »
A George McLean ROBERTSON (age 32) died in Errol in 1908.
If that is the husband of Jessie, half sister of Grace, she must have emigrated leaving her husband behind if she arrived in Canada in 1907?

I'm waiting with bated breath for Oscar to post Grace's birth certificate. (I had run out of SP credits and for reasons I fail to understand my credit card has been blocked ???)

No it’s OK Forfarian, they arrived Canada 2 August 1908
He must have died before they left.