How old was Grace O'Brien?

[Oscar91]

Hi,

I'm looking for more information about Grace O'Brien, wife of Canadian senator and businessman Michael John O'Brien (1851-1940). Grace was born on either 19 July 1885 or 1886. Her full maiden name appears to have been Grace Cecilia Robertson. She was born in Scotland (but died in Canada in 1995), but I'm not sure where exactly. Nor do I know who her parents were, but I'm hoping that there are only a limited amount of people born with that exact name in one of the two birth dates.

None of FamilySearch, Ancestry or FindMyPast seem to have her birth record, so I am a bit confused about where she could be. In the past, I have successfully found English birth record citations, but it seems that Scottish ones are more difficult.

[Forfarian]

None of FamilySearch, Ancestry or FindMyPast seem to have her birth record, so I am a bit confused about where she could be. In the past, I have successfully found English birth record citations, but it seems that Scottish ones are more difficult.

Not so; in general they're actually more informative if you look in the right place, which is www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk, and they are available to view instantly online at modest cost.

See https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=714261.0

Are you sure about her approximate year of birth, because if she was born in 1886 and died in 1995 she was 109 years old?

It appears that the marriage was in El Paso, Texas in 1925, and in the original document (available on FamilySearch) her name is Mrs Grace C Robertson. That suggests that Robertson was not her maiden surname. What is your source suggesting that it was?

[heywood]

Welcome to Rootschat

Yes she was a grand age - according to her obituary
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-toronto-star/159672854/

More info
https://the110club.com/grace-o-brien-1885-1886-1995-of-uk-canada-t31611.html

[Forfarian]

Good find, Heywood.

I suspect there had been a little bit of massaging of the truth. Maybe a middle name acquired in later life (not uncommon)?

I see that nephew George was said to be 16 and John 13 in the 1921 census, and that they immigrated in 1907. If so, John must have been a babe in arms, and he must have been born in 1907 if the information in the 1921 census has not been tweaked a little.

There's no record of a marriage in Scotland of a Mary Bean to a John Robertson. There is a marriage of a Mary Bain to a George Robertson in Aberdeenshire in 1869. Also a birth of plain John Robertson, mother's maiden surname Bain, in the same area in 1887, but there's no record of a John Robertson with middle name Fernie.

Quite a conundrum, altogether.

[heywood]

Scotland Select Births and Baptisms has this - a relative?

John Fairnie Thompson Robertson
Birth: 18th October, 1857,Perth,Scotland
Father John Robertson
Mother Isabella  Scott

[Oscar91]

Thanks so much for your replies, everyone. That thread on 110 Club is actually mine (I'm an administrator on the forum for supercentenarians). I didn't get any help or feedback there, so I thought I'd ask people are well-versed with Scottish documents. From the looks of it, the case is more complicated than I had thought. If some of the biographical information is inaccurate, then I'm afraid we'll never find out the truth. My experience with Swedish birth registration index on Ancestry is that you can search by exact date of birth and get a list of every single individual of a certain name who was born on that date. I know that Grace is a very common first name, but is it at least possible to narrow down to the number of Graces who were born on 19 July 1885 or 1886? Again, thank you very much for helping out. British (super)centenarians are usually easily verifiable, even those who emigrated. As a matter of fact, British supercentenarian emigrants to Canada has played an important part in building up lists related to Canadian longevity since the 1970s.

[Neale1961]

1911 Canada census for Grace Robertson gives immigration in 1907.

1921 Canada census Grace Robertson gives immigration in 1906, and the nephews George (b 1905) and John (born 1907) immigration in 1907.


Passenger List for Ionian arrival 28 July 1907 Canada
Grace Robertson, 21, single, born Scotland, domestic servant, destination Toronto


Passenger List for Ionian arrival 2 Aug 1908 Canada (4 people on same ticket)
Mrs Jessie Robertson 30 widow, born Scotland, domestic servant, destination Toronto (to brothers & sisters, mechanic? do..?)
George Robertson 3 child, born Scotland
John Robertson 8 month infant, born Scotland,
Mrs Mary Cooper, 58 , born Scotland, widow house keeper, destination Toronto (to live with sons who are clerks)


Mary Sullivan Cooper, age 58yrs & 8 months, widow, born Scotland,
Died 28 Dec 1908 York, Ontario Canada
Next of kin – John Robertson, rear 96 William Street
Burial 30 Dec Mount Pleasant Cemetery

[Neale1961]

Jessie A. COOPER married a George ROBERTSON in 1902 St Clement (Dundee).
George McLean ROBERTSON (age 32) died in Errol in 1908

Scotland Birth 1905 St Mary
George McLean ROBERTSON (Mmn Cooper)

Scotland  Birth 1907 Errol
John Fairny Tho.. ROBERTSON (Mmn – Cowper)

[Margow]

Another possibility worth investigating?

SP index lists the birth of Grace Robertson Cooper in 1886 in St Clement (Dundee) 282/3/616