John Hill Coffee House Keeper Shoreditch 1832 East End History

[Littlebn20]

I did caveat on my very first entry on this thread that I had asked about Eliphalet on a previous chat some time ago.

I came here to ask about John Hill and the Coffee House and not Eliphalet, it has just evovled in to that and I had no idea that would be frowned upon. I am desperate to learn more about my family history and have asked for help from people who are much more knowledgeable about these subjects than I am. I was very open about my Ancestry subscription lapsing and asking for help to learn more.

I am clearly not au fait with the roots chat/etiquette and I now feel suitably scolded for that. I shall find a more relaxed place to ask for help in the future. Thanks to all who contributed.

[J.J.]

No, No! I was in a hurry as I am not the only one on this computer... I was informing, not meaning to scold. What I had meant to add was please refer to older threads with a url as I did...which is posted again, below.
 (also... I felt scolded by you earlier on in this thread as well, but continued regardless, as it is hard to read feelings from the written word)

   Queries re: Eliphalet, etc
 https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=866609.0

BTW, I posted a hint on that query if you'd looked ...(re: your DNA match)

adding: the other query re: Eliphalet that I didn't have time to search for & add
  https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=866568.0

[J.J.]

"I came here to ask about John Hill and the Coffee House and not Eliphalet"
 Sound more as though you are scolding us. We did well, with many of us devoting a great deal of our time and hopefully some other descendants might appreciate it somewhere down the road.
 
from top of page 2 of replies...

Yes, I agree. Thank you again. I just need to try and find out if he is anything to do with my Eliphalet Hill. Needle + Haystack = the rest of my afternoon 

Middle of page 3 replies:

Thanks, this is a lot of really interesting information. I need to see if I can establish a family link, or disprove it now. You have all been really helpful, thank you. @J.J Do you happen to have access to the particulars of the 1852 will. I am pretty sure that my Eliphalet died in 1848, but I would be interested to learn if there were any references to a wife Susannah, or any other potential children.

Again on page 3

Still all very speculative as to whether or not he is actually my John Hill or not and the more I hear about him, the less likely I think it is as my Hill's don't appear to have come from money at all. What I know for certain is that Eliphalet Hill was born in 1805 to John Hill and Susannah, address on baptism given as New Castle Street in Shoreditch. It is not clear from my research if John and Susannah had any other children. The Witnesses on Eliphalet's marriage record to Mary Wright are William and Sarah Sadler. There was a Susannah Sadler born to William & Sarah Sadler in 1773 in Shoreditch, so have established that this likely the Susannah that was Eliphalet's mother. That's basically all I have got. Eliphalet Hill is seemingly the only Eliphalet in London in that period. I have been pondering on the unusual name for years. I have no Jewish ancestry, but it is very much a Hebrew name, pronounced Ihl-ah-falet.

UPDATE: Sophia Hill - Born to John & Susannah, Whitechapel 1798
              Sarah Hill - Born to John & Susannah, Whitechapel 1802
              John Hill - Born to John & Susannah, Whitechapel 1803

Does anyone have access to birth records to check these records for address/father occupation?

[AlanBoyd]

Back to the original topic of the thread.

Just to summarise: in 1841 Eliphalet Hill is a bricklayer living in Flower and Dean Street. He is described as a deceased coffee roaster at the time of his daughter's marriage in 1859.

In A Dictionary of Old Trades etc. by Colin Waters there is this entry:

coffee roaster. Though this can be a shopkeeper who sells coffee, it is more likely to indicate one of many workers in a large coffee-producing factory

In Robson's London Directory of 1842 there are only nineteen listings under the heading of Coffee and Cocoa-Nut Roasters from which I conclude that these are significant businesses (not shopkeepers!) One of these is:

Gummer, Thos. 5 Flower & Dean st. Spitalfields, & 56 & 57 High st., Mile end new town

Thus I think the conclusion must be that Eliphalet Hill at some time after 1841 began to work at Thomas Gummer’s establishment as a coffee roaster.

[Littlebn20]

Thank you so much. I really appreciate it. 

[bbart]

This is a confusing family to be sure, but JJ and I were on the right track in trying to sort out the occupation problem.

For example, Ann Elizabeth Hill's baptism (1830?*) shows her parents as JOHN and Mary Hill, of New Castle St., JOHN being a coffee roaster.

Her marriage in 1859 to Henry Weaver puts her father as "Liflett" Hill, a coffee roaster.

John Lifelet Hill, assumably Ann's brother:  his baptism gives this:
May 26, 1833 John Lifelet Hill, son of Lifelet and Mary, Crispin st, coffee roaster
His marriage states his father was a coffee roaster.

I cannot find a baptism for Ann's brother Joseph, but his marriage also states father was a coffee roaster.

The 1841 census shows bricklayer for Lifelet Hill.
The 1848 death for Lifelet Hill shows an address in Mile End New Town, occupation BRICKLAYER, and wife Mary Ann.  EDIT: occupation is bricklayer's labourer.

I really think a good look is needed for Eliphalet's brother John, b 1803, to see if he may have had a middle name of Lifelet, and a coffee roaster, OR his father, John (did he remarry?) and that for whatever reason, Eliphalet was raising his children.

There is also a Mary ANN Hill, widow, remarrying in 1850, living on Church St, Shoreditch that should be ruled in or out.

*  This baptismal book has the years scattered all over the place, the transcription says 1830, which could be right, but very hard to tell from the actual image.

Edited to add snip