Author Topic: Time frame from action to the Gazette........  (Read 1037 times)

Offline jess5athome

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Time frame from action to the Gazette........
« on: Tuesday 19 November 24 22:01 GMT (UK) »
Good evening, does anyone know how long it would normally take from an action in the trenches etc which would be recommended for an award to be published in the London Gazette?

I have a soldier by the name of William Rowlands 104928 R.F.A who was mentioned in the Gazette on the 13th of September 1918 ( page 10722 ) and awarded the Military Medal.

I am trying to find out the possible action he was involved in and the possible reason for the award, although I know that citations were very few and far between for enlisted men.

Many thanks, and as always my very best regards
Frank.
Ramsey Ridsdale Ridgway Kempen Knight Harrison Denby Sisson Graney Spilsbury Wain Hebden Abbott Skinn ........ Yorkshire (Doncaster Goole Snaith Thorne area)Lincolnshire Nottinghamshire The Netherlands

Online Andy J2022

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Re: Time frame from action to the Gazette........
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 19 November 24 22:33 GMT (UK) »
I think this quote from the Long, Long Trail website is probably the closest you will get to an answer to your question
Quote
Throughout the war the listing in the London Gazette was around three months after the act of bravery had been carried out. This good rule of thumb however breaks down during the great Allied offensive of the summer and autumn of 1918, with many MMs for this period not being listed until well into 1919
You should probably read the whole article to get the full picture. https://www.longlongtrail.co.uk/research-award-military-medal-mm/
As you say, the actual citation will be hard to find. My suggestion would be to try to locate the war diary entries for the likely incident for which the MM was awarded. Although the soldier may not be named in the diary you may be able to pin down a date or series of dates on which the incident probably occurred.

That said, some acts of bravery were not immediately acknowledged at the time and only came out later. And without wishing to be too cynical some MMs were recommended by commanding officers who wanted to raise morale and the chain of command was happy support them because they did have that effect and didn't cost anything to award. So it could be that the act which lead to the award might be seen as a soldier doing his duty, albeit in the face of the enemy, which on another day or in another place, might not have resulted In a recommendation. The act of bravery necessary for an award was never actually defined in detail, so it left much to the discretion of the soldier's  Commanding Officer.

Offline bbart

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Re: Time frame from action to the Gazette........
« Reply #2 on: Tuesday 19 November 24 23:02 GMT (UK) »
My suggestion would be to try to locate the war diary entries for the likely incident for which the MM was awarded. Although the soldier may not be named in the diary you may be able to pin down a date or series of dates on which the incident probably occurred.

I have no idea if this will help narrow down which diary/other to look for, but his records include a letter from him, as he hadn't yet received his MM, and he stated that his unit was D Batt, 162 Brigade, 33 Division, RFA.

Offline jess5athome

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Re: Time frame from action to the Gazette........
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 20 November 24 06:53 GMT (UK) »
Good morning, just popping back in before I go out this morning.

 Andy J2022, thank you for the reply, information and the Lonoglongtrail link, I will give it a read later today  :)

 bbart, many, many thanks for your input, I have yet to find his records but will continue to look for them, fascinating to learn of the letter you mention, it may well hold a clue  :)

My thanks and best wishes to you both.
Frank.
Ramsey Ridsdale Ridgway Kempen Knight Harrison Denby Sisson Graney Spilsbury Wain Hebden Abbott Skinn ........ Yorkshire (Doncaster Goole Snaith Thorne area)Lincolnshire Nottinghamshire The Netherlands


Offline bbart

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Re: Time frame from action to the Gazette........
« Reply #4 on: Wednesday 20 November 24 09:18 GMT (UK) »
I have yet to find his records but will continue to look for them, fascinating to learn of the letter you mention, it may well hold a clue  :)

I should have worded that better.... the "records" I referred to is more like a collection of medal cards, and correspondence back and forth regarding his medals.  There is no attestation form, pay sheets, or when/where he was during service, along with a few blank pages stamped "Duplicate", but were never filled out.  Oddly enough, there was also one page listing soldiers in various hospitals, but his name does not even appear on that.  ???  A bit of a jumbled file...

Offline jess5athome

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Re: Time frame from action to the Gazette........
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 20 November 24 10:21 GMT (UK) »
I have yet to find his records but will continue to look for them, fascinating to learn of the letter you mention, it may well hold a clue  :)

I should have worded that better.... the "records" I referred to is more like a collection of medal cards, and correspondence back and forth regarding his medals.  There is no attestation form, pay sheets, or when/where he was during service, along with a few blank pages stamped "Duplicate", but were never filled out.  Oddly enough, there was also one page listing soldiers in various hospitals, but his name does not even appear on that.  ???  A bit of a jumbled file...

Ah, I see, not to worry, I did a search on Ancestry for his records but no luck I'm afraid, do you happen to have a link to the correspondence etc?

Many thanks again for your kind reply.
Frank.
Ramsey Ridsdale Ridgway Kempen Knight Harrison Denby Sisson Graney Spilsbury Wain Hebden Abbott Skinn ........ Yorkshire (Doncaster Goole Snaith Thorne area)Lincolnshire Nottinghamshire The Netherlands

Offline bbart

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Re: Time frame from action to the Gazette........
« Reply #6 on: Wednesday 20 November 24 15:36 GMT (UK) »
Hi Frank,
The records I found are on FindmyPast, and there is good news and bad news!
The good news is that I had not scrolled far enough through all the pages; his attestation papers etc are there!
The bad news is that there is no explanation for the MM for unless I missed something.

Edited to add clip (which I have photo edited as it was very faint).  I am wondering if the 5th of September was the date of the event that he earned it for?

Online Andy J2022

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Re: Time frame from action to the Gazette........
« Reply #7 on: Wednesday 20 November 24 16:06 GMT (UK) »
I think 5th September is the date of the Gazette edition, although the actual supplement in which the award was 'gazetted' was 13 September 1918. I haven't confirmed this by looking it up.

Offline bbart

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Re: Time frame from action to the Gazette........
« Reply #8 on: Wednesday 20 November 24 16:13 GMT (UK) »
Thanks, Andy.  I was hoping it might have narrowed it down.  The search goes on!