HANNIS mystery

[yecartmannew]

Evening all

I have a perplexing mystery that even if you can't help with, you may enjoy pondering

Frederick HANNIS - b.1881 – Hatton, England - source Marriage Certificate, Baptism record, and 1911 Census

Married on 16.07.1910 to

Nora Georgina CUNNOLD – b.1881 – Macclesfield, Cheshire, England – source Marriage Certificate, 1911 Census, 1939 Register

1st child Frederick Norman Sidney HANNIS (Uncle Fred) – b 16.09.1914 – source 1939 Register

2nd  child Eunice Amy HANNIS (Grandma) – b.07.03.1917 – Aston, Warwickshire – Birth Index, 1939 Register, Marriage Cert (Married surname PRENTICE)

3rd child Leonard S HANNIS – b.21.04.1919 – source birth index, 1939 register
Frederick died (so we thought) in 1925 – source death index 1916-2007 Q4 Birmingham South v 6d p 277

Nora died in 1947 – source death index

Leonard died in 1951 – source death index and I never met him so definitely died prior to 1969

Uncle Fred died on 1st June 1982 and this is where it gets really strange……….

He died without a valid will, so probate was issued according to the intestacy rules.

1. He was not married
2. He did not have children
3. Both parents were dead

This means that his estate would be shared between his full siblings, of which there was only Grandma left.

BUT The grant states probate goes to Grandma, Eunice A PRENTICE, AND EUNICE A SMITH. So who the heck is Eunice A SMITH? She should be a full sibling according to the rules, but that doesn’t seem possible. Not only are there no records, but would 2 full siblings have the same name?

Well it turns out there is a Eunice A HANNIS b.Q3 1939 in Manchester with a mothers name of Cotton. She married Edward G SMITH in 1958 – source birth and marriage index.

So in order to be a beneficiary of Uncle Fred’s estate her father must be Frederick, so he couldn’t have died in 1925, and the rules must have been ignored to squeeze in a half sister. And why would Frederick have named 2 daughters the same?

I have ordered Eunice SMITH’s birth and marriage certificates to confirm the details but Royal Mail is spectacularly awful in our area so it may take a few weeks for the to arrive.

Can anyone help solve the mystery in the meantime?

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Looks like you;ve missed a sibling

Alfred Hannis married Florence Cotton in 1936. 1939 shows his dob as 1911 and he has daughter Eunice

This is his birth

Alfred G Hannis
Q4 1911
Mother    Cunn[eo]ld
Aston Vol 6d p445

[Mabel Bagshawe]

Alfred died Q1 1982, so it's possible Eunice would have taken his share (but I'm not clear if the inheritance flows down a further generation in these circs)

[Mabel Bagshawe]

As further evidence, Alfred George is on the 1935 electoral register at 22 Swanage Rd, Yardley, along with Nora

[CaroleW]

Your wording is incorrect

Firstly - if somebody dies without leaving a will - there is no "grant of probate". The applicant is granted "Letters of Administration"  This is what it says against Fred's  entry on the Probate website. Administration Birmingham 15th October

"The grant says probate goes to grandma Eunice A Prentice & Eunice A Smith"

All this means is that the 2 women were given legal permission to administer his estate.  It does not mean that both were beneficiaries. 

[CaroleW]

If all siblings apart from your grandmother were deceased by the time Fred died - in the absence of a will - the deceased siblings share would be divided between their children.  Example below based on him leaving £34k as stated on probate website

3 siblings - Eunice & Leonard & Alfred

Leonard & Alfred are deceased but let's assume both had children

Eunice receives £11,300 (one third)
The remaining £22,600 + would be divided into 2 shares of £11,300  then each share would be divided between the children of the 2 deceased siblings

The more children the sibling had - the less each child would receive

(eg) Sibling had 2 children - each child receives £5,650
Sibling had 4 children - each child receives £2,825

[CaroleW]

I don't think Leonard married in which case Eunice snr would receive half of the £34k & the remaining £17k would be divided between Alfred's children E... b 1939 & F.... b 1944 (may still be living)

[yecartmannew]

Wow, thanks for all the replies, you are great!

Aha, a missing sibling! That makes sense. I didn't realise deceased siblings share would move down a generation if there was no will.

Also apologies for the misleading wording. They are indeed "letters of administration"

[MSpearing]

My records match yours exactly for the Hannis family and you were indeed missing their firstborn son. I thought you may like to know that I have Leonard's bible, given to him by his mother. I presume it came to me with my grandmother's effects when she died. I do not know the details but I was led to believe that he committed suicide after the war (1951) due to PTSD, as we would call it now. Frederick Norman Hannis was my godfather. Nora Georgina Cunnold was my great aunt - sister of Edith Annie Cunnold, my granny who married Frederick Richard Canlett.