1800 Probate record for Charles Burley of Southwark

[alfindit]

Hi,

I have just found a May 1800 Canterbury Prerogative Court probate record for Charles Burley (very possibly my 5th great-grandfather), which says he was living in Southwark before he died. I believe (if I have the correct burial for him at Spa Fields, Clerkenwell, in February 1799) he was about 57 years old when he died in 1799. A copy of the written index for the probate is attached. It appears to say '(illegible) H Ships Unicorn and Squirrel, Southwark'. Does anyone know what that means? I had an ancestor (actually the husband of Charles' granddaughter) who was sentenced to 7 years' transportation in 1839, but ended up on the HMPS Ganymede and Warrior at Woolwich, before dying after about a year into his sentence on the Hospital Ship Unité at Woolwich and I'm wondering if this is a similar scenario. However, I can find no convictions for Charles, though a Charles Burley - late a prisoner from the King's Bench - was buried at St George the Martyr's Church, Southwark, in Dec 1800, some 6 months after this probate was dealt with, and I'm wondering if there is somehow an error with the dates. Does anyone please have any ideas?

I have heard that, as there were no barracks on land at Chatham, moored ships were used as accommodation, and I wondered if the same applied to Southwark. Again, does anyone know if this was the case? Having said that, as far as I know Charles was a 'plaisterer', not a seagoing chap.

Regarding the May 1800 probate, I have been unable to find a copy of Charles Burley's will in the Cantebury Prerogative Court records, either on Ancestry (who, I believe, say they have all of them), or at the National Archives. Can anyone think of a reason for this? Or can anyone find it? I'll attach the Findmypast records here to aid in that search if anyone has the time.

Thanks for taking the time to read this and I hope I made it clear enough. I really appreciate the time and trouble people go to in order to help a comparative beginner like myself.

Al

[alfindit]

And then I found the attached December 1799 document at the National Archives that includes Charles Burley and HMS Squirrel, and though the dates of the May 1800 probate (where the address includes Ship and Squirrel) and December 1800 'late prisoner' burial record mentioned above do not add up, I feel there is probably a link and suspect the dates may be somehow wrong: Arrest: Dec 1799; probate May 1800; burial of 'late prisoner' Dec 1800.

The prisoner/Squirrel Charles Burley may well not be my ancestor, as he is described as a plaisterer on 3 separate records, but I am now intrigued and need to 'eliminate boatswain from my enquiries'.

Lots of readers, but no responses. Is it too hard, or too easy? Or have I posted it in the wrong place? Either way, thanks for dropping in 

[mckha489]

So sorry you are feeling lonely  out there! I meant to reply the other day and was obviously sidetracked!
Worth the delay for that interesting snip from TNA though.

But have you looked at the actual image for the burial in London, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812

It was 25th March 1800. Late a prisoner from the King’s bench.
Indexed on A as December!

Added, it looks as though when ‘they’ went from 1799 to 1800 they remembered to change the year in the spreadsheet but forgot to change the month,
Everyone on that page is indexed incorrectly. I’ve put in a correction for Charles.

[mckha489]

I wonder if the log of the Squirrel would have more details of his arrest.

[alfindit]

Hi,
That's a good point. I'm not sure where to find that, but the National Archives is probably a good place to start.
Thanks

[alfindit]

So sorry you are feeling lonely  out there! I meant to reply the other day and was obviously sidetracked!
Worth the delay for that interesting snip from TNA though.

But have you looked at the actual image for the burial in London, England, Church of England Baptisms, Marriages and Burials, 1538-1812

It was 25th March 1800. Late a prisoner from the King’s bench.
Indexed on A as December!

Added, it looks as though when ‘they’ went from 1799 to 1800 they remembered to change the year in the spreadsheet but forgot to change the month,
Everyone on that page is indexed incorrectly. I’ve put in a correction for Charles.

That is a great spot - I thought there was something wrong with the dating of those records, but got sidetracked (it happens to the best of us!) and didn't go back to check. Thanks a lot.

I've just discovered that the copy wills attached to the Canterbury Prerogative records held at the National Archive were destroyed under section 6 of the 1958 Public Records Act between 1964 and 1967. So that's why I couldn't find it - but the Archive has the undigitised originals, so that's a project for a future date.

Thanks again

[Bookbox]

Regarding the May 1800 probate, I have been unable to find a copy of Charles Burley's will in the Cantebury Prerogative Court records, either on Ancestry (who, I believe, say they have all of them), or at the National Archives. Can anyone think of a reason for this?

Just to be clear, the image that you are looking at on FindMyPast is not an index to wills but an index to death duty registers (IR 27).

Death duty registers are tax records, showing that duty was paid on an estate. The volume that you’re looking at (IR 27/18) is the index to duty paid on estates where there was no will but a grant of administration was issued instead. So Charles Burley apparently did not leave a valid will.

The death duty register for his estate should be in IR 26/183. The entry should give you a little information, the name of the administrator and probably a valuation. It can be viewed either at the National Archives or at a Family History Center/affiliated library.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3339331

There should also be an entry for the actual grant of administration for Charles Burley's estate in the PCC Administration Act book for 1800, held at the National Archives in PROB 6. This is not online.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C3063725

(Charles Burley may have been a prisoner in the King's Bench not as a criminal but as a debtor, in which case the administrator of the estate may have been one of his creditors.)

If you don't have access to the National Archives, you would need someone to visit on your behalf, because unfortunately copies of the above records can't be ordered directly online.

[alfindit]

Hi, Bookbox,
Thank you so much for your very detailed response. I apologise for not getting back to you sooner. What you say is very helpful and opens up several avenues of research, as well as explaining clearly what I was looking at and pointing out my misapprehension. This is all new to me - as it is to everyone at some point I expect - and your help is very much appreciated.

Thanks again,

Al