Author Topic: Deciphering a parish marriage dispensation for Little Bray  (Read 1381 times)

Offline Sinann

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Re: Deciphering a parish marriage dispensation for Little Bray
« Reply #9 on: Friday 08 November 24 18:08 GMT (UK) »
Peter Kearney was baptised in Kingstown 1787, making him age 57 at marriage. Jane Toole was 55. She was a Catholic from Bray.
- - -

Kingstown didn't exist in 1787, it only came about after the harbour was built near the old village of Dun Leary and the new town was named Kingstown after a Royal visit in 1821. Before the Catholic church was built in the town the parish was much larger and the parish church or chapel was probably the one at Cabinteely.

There is a sketch of Cabinteely parish at the start of one of the earliest parts of the register
https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633805?locale=en#page/4/mode/1up

Offline athacliath62

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Re: Deciphering a parish marriage dispensation for Little Bray
« Reply #10 on: Friday 08 November 24 18:20 GMT (UK) »
There was another Catholic chapel at Crinken also in this older parish - now long gone, right beside the village of Shankill where this  Kearney/Carney family lived.

Offline shanreagh

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Re: Deciphering a parish marriage dispensation for Little Bray
« Reply #11 on: Friday 08 November 24 23:58 GMT (UK) »
I think if you cannot get a better copy then placing a request on the Handwriting, Deciphering board here might be a thought. 

Expand the entry relating to the dispensation as much as you can.  Then attach this and a copy at ordinary/original size of the entry from the register plus a link.  I used to have a programme that let me blow up entries to pixel level and often was able to retore 'lost' letters.  It is on another computer.

As Wexflyer says it is of significance  the level of official who has approved this.  This high level may be related to the type of dispensation sought or it might be related to say a friendship between the family/ies of the two getting married with the family of the VG.

The first section of the dispensation seemsm to have a word 'epi' XXXXX

'A Catholic who is marrying a non-Catholic must obtain a dispensation for the marriage to be valid. Without a dispensation, the marriage would be blocked by the mixed-marriage impediment". (from Wiki)
 


Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Deciphering a parish marriage dispensation for Little Bray
« Reply #12 on: Saturday 09 November 24 00:11 GMT (UK) »


The first section of the dispensation seems to have a word 'epi' XXXXX


Epi. is an abbreviation for Episcopus - Latin for bishop. Before being appointed as Archbishop of Dublin in 1879, Dr MacCabe was already the auxiliary archbishop, with a titular see as bishop of a location "In Partibus Infidelium" - presumably the location represented by XXXXX.
BRENNANx2 Davidstown&Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh&Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee&Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough&Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson&Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry&Oulart;WALSH Kilrane&Wex; WHITE Tagoat area


Offline KD146

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Re: Deciphering a parish marriage dispensation for Little Bray
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 09 November 24 01:23 GMT (UK) »
There was another Catholic chapel at Crinken also in this older parish - now long gone, right beside the village of Shankill where this  Kearney/Carney family lived.

The Catholic chapel at Crinken dated from 1810 to 1837, before being replaced by St.Peter's in Little Bray. In this case, it looks like Cabinteely was probably the chapel used.

*EDIT* I made a mistake, 1822 was Peter's baptism, his father was baptised in 1787, so Crinken could also have been the chapel.
Co.Dublin - Connor, Martin, Reilly, Roche

Co.Laois - Brennan, Cobbe, Curran, Quearney

Co.Wexford - Kavanagh, Louth, Toole

Co.Wicklow - Booth, Byrne, Franklin, Kearney, Keddy, Murphy, Turner, Waldron, Woods

Hampshire, UK - Hayter, Heady, Nutley, Pullen

Offline KD146

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Re: Deciphering a parish marriage dispensation for Little Bray
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 09 November 24 01:28 GMT (UK) »
Thank you all so much for all this. It seems that Peter Kearney required very special dispensation since the Vicar Capitular got involved!

I would love to know why. I cannot find anything about his appearance in the US in 1850, or when he left or returned. All I have is one US Census, and that only because by chance his brother Nicholas is there too.

I wonder if his time in America influenced this, or something else? I haven't found any other marriage.
Co.Dublin - Connor, Martin, Reilly, Roche

Co.Laois - Brennan, Cobbe, Curran, Quearney

Co.Wexford - Kavanagh, Louth, Toole

Co.Wicklow - Booth, Byrne, Franklin, Kearney, Keddy, Murphy, Turner, Waldron, Woods

Hampshire, UK - Hayter, Heady, Nutley, Pullen

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Deciphering a parish marriage dispensation for Little Bray
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 09 November 24 01:32 GMT (UK) »
Thank you all so much for all this. It seems that Peter Kearney required very special dispensation since the Vicar Capitular got involved!

You have assumed from the start that the issue was on Peter's side. Why?
Couldn't it equally have been on Jane's side?
BRENNANx2 Davidstown&Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh&Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee&Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough&Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson&Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry&Oulart;WALSH Kilrane&Wex; WHITE Tagoat area

Offline KD146

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Re: Deciphering a parish marriage dispensation for Little Bray
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 09 November 24 01:52 GMT (UK) »
Thank you all so much for all this. It seems that Peter Kearney required very special dispensation since the Vicar Capitular got involved!

You have assumed from the start that the issue was on Peter's side. Why?
Couldn't it equally have been on Jane's side?

It could, of course. I have searched for other earlier marriages, but found none. I will keep looking. But thank you so much for your very useful input!
Co.Dublin - Connor, Martin, Reilly, Roche

Co.Laois - Brennan, Cobbe, Curran, Quearney

Co.Wexford - Kavanagh, Louth, Toole

Co.Wicklow - Booth, Byrne, Franklin, Kearney, Keddy, Murphy, Turner, Waldron, Woods

Hampshire, UK - Hayter, Heady, Nutley, Pullen

Offline Wexflyer

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Re: Deciphering a parish marriage dispensation for Little Bray
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 09 November 24 01:56 GMT (UK) »

It could, of course. I have searched for other earlier marriages, but found none. I will keep looking. But thank you so much for your very useful input!

Umm... An existing, previous marriage could not be dispensed with under any circumstance! [Except the Pauline exception, which obviously doesn't apply in this case].

So that is certainly not the issue.
More likely is a close relationship by blood or marriage.
See the following for an extended discussion of impediments,
https://www.catholic.com/encyclopedia/canonical-impediments
BRENNANx2 Davidstown&Taghmon,Ballybrennan; COOPER St.Helens;CREAN Raheennaskeagh&Ballywalter;COSGRAVE Castlebridge?;CULLEN Lady's Island;CULLETON Forth Commons;CURRAN Hillbrook, Wic;DOYLE Clonee&Tombrack;FOX Knockbrandon; FURLONG Moortown;HAYESx2 Walsheslough&Wex;McGILL Litter;MORRIS Forth Commons;PIERCE Ladys Island;POTTS Bennettstown;REDMOND Gerry; ROCHEx2 Wex; ROCHFORD Ballysampson&Ballyhit;SHERIDAN Moneydurtlow; SINNOTT Wex;SMYTH Gerry&Oulart;WALSH Kilrane&Wex; WHITE Tagoat area