Unfindable couple / Male was in Navy

[heywood]

Not this Ethel, Neale1961

I have been looking at another potential mother for Joseph Thomas Brooks born 20 Feb 1915, at 4 Boundary Rd Chatham.

Ethel SALES (Ethel perhaps a second name?) born 1894 in Chatham
Came from a fractured family, who obviously struggled financially.
Someone with access to 1921 census may like to see where she is then.


1911 census at 294 Chatham Hill.
– Ethel Sales age 16 is with her mother Maria (40), and her step-father William John Smith (38) a worker at Chatham docks, and some half siblings.
 Ethel is recorded as a day girl domestic servant.
Was she employed at some point by the Allen family at nearby 4 Boundary Rd?
Stewart and Minnie Allen came from Scotland. He was an accountant, so wealthy enough to employ a domestic servant, and we know the Allans had advertised for a home help / housekeeper in early 1914.

There is a marriage - December quarter 1912, Medway
Ethel Sales and Albert E W Thomas
Birth of Albert Thomas mmn Sales, 1915 Pontardawe

1921 supports this - living in Bedwellty.

[bradwaterss]

.....
He was in the Royal Navy until 1902 according to documents found by Cas and it appears he then moved into furniture sales of some description. ......

This is not entirely true and his service record with the Royal Navy needs clarification.
Joseph Brooks service record – 12 years (edit)

•   10.12.1894 to 28.1.1902 served on numerous ships (in 1902 bought his way out, 5 years before he would have finished his service)
•   He joined the Royal Fleet Reserve, class B, in Chatham in Jan 1904, and re-enrolled from Jan 1909 for 5 years. During his time with RFR he would have been in his civilian occupation - furniture. (see link below for RFR)
•   WW1 started, and he was then on active service with the Royal Navy from 2 Aug 1914 – 18 Sept 1916 onboard “Pembroke”,  and 19 Sept 1916 – 27 Jan 1919 onboard “Actaeon”.
He was demobilised at the end of the war, with a military pension.

RFR-   https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~pbtyc/genealogy/RFR/RFR.html

Note – If Joseph Thomas Brooks born 20 Feb 1915 in Chatham was his son, the child was born while the father was away on service. It is most probable that he never saw his son, and he may not have known that the child existed.
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/598822:60522

Wow, thanks for extensive research that’s impressive and lots of detail

[BushInn1746]

Navy record for No. 278653, Joseph Brooks

1919
It has been previously mentioned a Pension was paid in 1919 and M.O.P. 28-1-1919 is on the Navy record No. 278653.

M.o.P., usually means Ministry of Pensions.

See attachment

Cas found a Navy Index Card at reply 12 which has several addresses on.

Navy Index Card
https://www.ancestry.co.uk/search/collections/61588/records/157209377?tid=&pid=&queryid=d8c30741-8687-4ebc-8cfa-f43a084adc83&_phsrc=Rnp636&_phstart=successSource

Pensioned 1919, do an Address search 2 yrs later for all Census Schedules for "25 Balmes Road" with London in the Location in 1921 box.
[Move the image arrow to get the other Census Schedule for the Brooks]

Joseph T Brooks, 17, born *, living with mum Martha and her other children.
 ----------
Comment

* Place of Birth appears to be 34 miles from Chatham and also he is too old, see Birth Certificate on Original Post on Thread

According to the two addresses on the Navy Index Card of this Navy chap.

Which also seems to say 47 New Road, Chatham, Kent?

Mark

[BushInn1746]

By the way there are other Joseph Brooks in the Royal Navy:-
(See f m p )

Joseph Brooks, 220093

Chatham at the top of the large Record Card / Sheet

Born Bethnal Green, London, 21 Nov 1885

Engagement 1903 - 12 yrs

 --------------------
Joseph Brooks M8281

No place written at top of Card Sheet

Born Atherton, Lancs 8 Jan 1887

Period of engagement 2 August 1914 1yr NCS

18 Oct 15 - 22 Nov 15
Shore NCS Exp_te_ [Expected ?]

https://www.commandoveterans.org/rm-serv_rec_abbreviations

Possibly - Non-CS
Non-continuous service

Today, also 
Navy Careers Service
 --------------------
Joseph Brooks

K22497 Portsmouth

Born Ashby, Leics, 1891

Engagement 12 May 1914 - 12 yrs
 --------------------
ADDED:
Joseph Brooks

215502 Portsmouth

Born 1885 Loughborough

Aug 1914
Shore Med Unfit
 --------------------
Joseph Brooks, Former R.N.V.R. [Volunteer Reserve] Y6510

J.61824 Portsmouth

Engagement 10 Nov 1916 - Hostilities

Born Birkenhead, Cheshire 1891
TNA ADM 188/770
 --------------------

Engagement of these are 1917 and after

Joseph Brooks
F38802
(Felixstowe) (E'church) [possibly Eastchurch?]
Engagement 25 Sept 1917 - Hostilities
Born Sheffield, Yorkshire, 1896
 ----------
Joseph Brooks
SS 125606 Portsmouth
Engagement from 1921 - 1921
Born Bethnal Green 1901
PRO / TNA ADM 188/1131
 ----------

There may be more records at the Royal Navy Museum Reply # 37

[sparrett]

 

Joseph T Brooks, 17, born *, living with mum Martha and her other children.
 ----------
Comment

* Place of Birth appears to be 34 miles from Chatham and also he is too old, see Birth Certificate on Original Post on Thread
 
Mark

Hi,
 just a reminder (see my reply #27) the first EDIT second child of Martha (nee HALL) and Joseph BROOKS was named Joseph Thomas. His baptism image is available on Ancestry. 1903.
And details are given in my reply #27

Sue
 

[BushInn1746]

I refer back to Reply #92 in full

Amended this post 95 for clarity

At the start of the thread, the Birth Certificate of Joseph Thomas Brooks said he was born 1915 at Chatham.

[sparrett]

Hi
So you are saying-

1919 Pension directed (presumably by post) to 47 New Street.
 
1921 Address 25 Balmes Rd with HARMER.

1922 DC 47 New St.  Shared with HARMER.

Do I have it?

Sue

[sparrett]

For general interest, I can confirm that Martha (nee HALL) was not deceased at the time of the death of Joseph BROOKS in 1922.

Daughter of Joseph and Martha ,b. 1907

Marriages Mar 1932 
BROOKS    Beatrice L   
WRIGHT  Albert E
Willesden    3a   499   

Martha was born in 1867 and can be seen in the late 1930's recorded as living at the same address as this couple in Kenton.

So if there was to be a legal widow of Joseph who died in 1922, it would appear to be Martha, in the light of there being no HARMER/BROOKS marriage that I can see.

I'm not sure how much consideration was given to common-law marriages at that time.

[BushInn1746]

Looking at the 1915 Birth Certificate (original post) and Reply 92 there seems to be more than one Joseph T Brooks - with a Father in the Royal Navy.