Author Topic: Unfindable couple / Male was in Navy  (Read 10705 times)

Offline heywood

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 42,490
    • View Profile
Re: Unfindable couple / Male was in Navy
« Reply #72 on: Sunday 10 November 24 22:51 GMT (UK) »
Interesting that Mabel’s mother is Mary Elizabeth - which has added to my confusion.

Is the theory, if there is one, that Joseph fathered a child to:
Mabel Sayles b 1890 and that she added the name Ethel
and he, within a couple of years, then took up with
Mary Elizabeth Harmer nee Sayles?

Added
Brad, it’s best to remove the latest image of the birth. You have it early in the thread and all that black isn’t good.  😊
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline haliared

  • RootsChat Veteran
  • *****
  • Posts: 545
  • The future rests upon the foundations of the past.
    • View Profile
Re: Unfindable couple / Male was in Navy
« Reply #73 on: Monday 11 November 24 00:21 GMT (UK) »
Just putting this here so we don't have to keep looking it up! Sue's post:
Have you followed the Mabel SAYLES b 1890 to Benjamin and Mary (nee MYERS) SAYLES?

She can be seen in 1901 living with her mother, Mary Elizabeth  who has remarried and whose surname is now STANARD/STONARD  and sisters. They live in Russell Road Wimbledon.

In 1911 she is still single with this family
One sister I think is named Ethel, though on other census she is Eliza.

 On the 1911 document . Mabel I think has written her own name and it resembles the signature of the bride in a marriage to George WELLS in 1920 which took place in Clapham Surrey.

Sue 

The Mary Elizabeth MYERS from Sue's post I think was the daughter of William MYERS a joiner.

On 19 Apr 1886 in Sheffield she married Benjamin SAYLES, son of Charles SAYLES a vetinary surgeon.
On 10 Feb 1901 as a widow she married Henry STONARD in Wimbledon, Surrey/London.
On the 1901 census with Henry in Wimbledon she is age 36 born Wombwell, Yorkshire and has Eliza E SAYLES age 12 born Derby, Derbyshire, Mabel SAYLES age 11 born Derby, Derbyshire, and Minnie Annie Elizabeth SAYLES age 7 born Wimbledon, Surrey.

This maybe the Mabel (age 11 in 1901) who is a chance to be the mother of Joseph Thomas BROOKS, and yes we are guessing because there are no records we can find to prove anything concrete that we can find presently!
Census & BMD information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline heywood

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 42,490
    • View Profile
Re: Unfindable couple / Male was in Navy
« Reply #74 on: Monday 11 November 24 08:00 GMT (UK) »
Thank you haliared.
So with your ‘guess’ re Mabel, daughter of Benjamin, do you think it is just coincidence that Joseph then took up with Mary Elizabeth Harmer nee Sayles?

Brad, sorry to ask again, is the margin note on the death certificate cut off on your copy or just the post on here?
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline bradwaterss

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 85
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Unfindable couple / Male was in Navy
« Reply #75 on: Monday 11 November 24 08:33 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

It was how it was received unfortunately, i could order it as a certificate which would take a while to come

I only ordered the digital image, i could try the PDF version?


Offline Dave Francis

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,166
  • Cornelius Fisk Goodwin (1880-1961)
    • View Profile
Re: Unfindable couple / Male was in Navy
« Reply #76 on: Monday 11 November 24 09:12 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

It was how it was received unfortunately, i could order it as a certificate which would take a while to come

I only ordered the digital image, i could try the PDF version?

PDF version would probably be cropped as well. I would order the paper version because you should definitely be able to read the additional note.  I also assume you only have a digital version of the birth cert too, so I would order the paper version just in case there's a note added to it as well. 
Census information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Surnames include: FRANCIS in Glamorgan / LANWORN in Monmouth / BLACKMAN, RUSSELL in Sussex / KEARSEY, BARLTROP in Essex / TOOKEY in Leicestershire / LASHMORE in London and Kent / GOODWIN, PASQUE, ATTOE, FISK, QUINTON, RUFFLES, CULLINGFORD and others in Suffolk / MAYOSS anywhere anytime! / GILMORE in Belfast

Offline bradwaterss

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 85
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Unfindable couple / Male was in Navy
« Reply #77 on: Monday 11 November 24 09:15 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

Yes, i agree

I will order both and revert back

Brad

Offline sparrett

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 18,916
    • View Profile
Re: Unfindable couple / Male was in Navy
« Reply #78 on: Monday 11 November 24 09:19 GMT (UK) »
Thank you haliared.
So with your ‘guess’ re Mabel, daughter of Benjamin, do you think it is just coincidence that Joseph then took up with Mary Elizabeth Harmer nee Sayles?


Hi Heywood
haliared has in their post quoted some of my posts earlier in this thread, though without the actual quote formatting ;D

in my reply #32 I have made the hypothesis of Mabel as mother.

I cannot comment on the co-incidence of surname SAYLES between the 2 women assosiated with Joseph BROOKS.
Nor can I see a connection between them.

Sue


Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline heywood

  • RootsChat Honorary
  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 42,490
    • View Profile
Re: Unfindable couple / Male was in Navy
« Reply #79 on: Monday 11 November 24 09:32 GMT (UK) »
Thanks Sue. I knew it was your quote.
I was trying to clarify things. At one point it seemed that there might be a supposition that the two women were the same person - both initials M E with a change of first names for the birth registration.
Obviously if your Mabel is correct, their ages and places of birth are different so not so.
I am just being fussy.
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline sparrett

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 18,916
    • View Profile
Re: Unfindable couple / Male was in Navy
« Reply #80 on: Monday 11 November 24 09:43 GMT (UK) »
Hi
I understood that you knew it was originally from me ;D

I was not sure that others did.

I'm pretty sure that the RN serviceman Joseph BROOKS (turned furniture polishe/salesperson etc) is the same man who married Martha HALL and then fathered Joseph Thomas BROOKS jnr and then ended up an ailing RN pensioner with Mrs HARMER, widow in 1921.

But only an opinion based on some coincidences. Mabel SAYLES was clearly in the right place , right time.

Sue
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk