Unfindable couple / Male was in Navy

[Cas (stallc)]

Mary Elizabeth SAYLES married Albert Alfred HARMER 5 Nov 1899 in Willesden, London but don't know if this is any use?

Marriage image online - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/7800137:1623

Mary Elizabeth Harmer (nee Sayles) widow, occupation is a Dresser line showrooms, Furnisher in 1911 - maybe how they met?

1911 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/39837601:2352

I wonder if this is Mabel Ethel? Why would she change names on BC but give her maiden name...

Cas

[BushInn1746]

The 2nd visible line of the Margin Note (Reply 42 & 45) does look like it could be read Harme...

Added
Looking at where I believe the surname of the Registrar may appear, I would estimate that 2/3 rds of the width of the message is missing.

[bradwaterss]

Yes, odd to use Mabel instead of Mary and Sayles instead of Harmer I would agree

[Cas (stallc)]

The couple are together 1921 at the address on DC, her surname Harmer.   Joseph there from around 1919 on RN service records.

I think the note on DC could be as his wife Martha claimed his RN pension rights. Maybe she contested that M.E Brooks, who registered death, as widow, was M.E Harmer and not his wife?

Just a suggestion, I would consider DNA testing, by a elder family member, to try confirm parentage of Jack/Joseph jnr. DNA cannot lie.

Cas

[bradwaterss]

Interesting!!

When you say DNA , does the 23&me test for example work? How could you link him to a family member

[Cas (stallc)]

Interesting!!

When you say DNA , does the 23&me test for example work? How could you link him to a family member

Ancestry has the biggest database, personally I would not go with 23&me.  When your DNA results are back, you will have matches, you can link to your tree (if you have one on Ancestry) matches are in Cms the higher they are.. the nearer the match etc.

If considering it, I would read up. There a many useful topics & links on Rootschat and elsewhere.

Added - Some Xmas offers already up (I have no affiliation)

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/c/dna/offer

Cas

[haliared]

Could Mary Elizabeth SAYLES be a sister of Mabel Ethel SAYLES who is the mother of Joseph Thomas BROOKS junior? She may not have been able to marry Joseph Thomas BROOKS senior as he was already married to Martha, but she could have changed her surname by deed poll to BROOKS to appear married. This happens in my family, divorces were not cheap and at one point you had to have committed something like adultery to get one, no longer wanting to be married was not an option for divorce legally.
Then later Mary Elizabeth, if her sister Mabel Ethel died could also have been a common law wife of Joseph Thomas BROOKS and changed her surname by deed poll, again in my family it was not unusual for a man to marry his wife's sister after she died. Just a thought.

[BushInn1746]

Mary Elizabeth SAYLES married Albert Alfred HARMER 5 Nov 1899 in Willesden, London but don't know if this is any use?

Marriage image online - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/7800137:1623

Mary Elizabeth Harmer (nee Sayles) widow, occupation is a Dresser line showrooms, Furnisher in 1911 - maybe how they met?

1911 - https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/39837601:2352

I wonder if this is Mabel Ethel? Why would she change names on BC but give her maiden name...

Cas

1907
Albert Alfred Harmer, 30 years, died in the Reg'n District of Hendon.

Joseph Brooks, Royal Navy born Bermondsey appears to have been medically discharged?
Mary Elizabeth Harmer, a Widow in 1907 may be the Servant to Joseph Brooks ... named 1921

From the scant incomplete Death Certificate Margin Note, Widow Harmer may have registered the death of Joseph Brooks?

It seems for some reason, the Death Certificate has a Margin Note?

Mark

Added
In 1921 Joseph Brooks is running a Boarding House, with Boarders, formerly Royal Navy

[bradwaterss]

That is really interesting, I still find it odd she is down as Mabel on the birth certificate

So she became his servant while he was separated from his wife and they had the child ?


So rather interestingly he could have married his ex wife’s sister? Or had a child with her?