Author Topic: Children of Edward Spencer of Dallam Lane?  (Read 341 times)

Offline Buffnut453

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Children of Edward Spencer of Dallam Lane?
« on: Sunday 27 October 24 01:57 GMT (UK) »
One of my 3rd Great Grandfathers was Edward Spencer, a potter, who was born in Dallam but eventually moved to St.Helens.

I have a first marriage of Edward to an Emma Gardner in 1834 per the following Lancs Online Parish Clerks record.  Edward's occupation doesn't match his later career as a potter but I think that's a minor difference.  One original version of this record lists the marriage place as the Parochial Chapel of Farnworth:

Marriage: 23 Mar 1834 St Luke (formerly St Wilfrid), Farnworth (Widnes), Lancashire
Edward Spencer - Wheelwright, this Parish
Emma Gardner - Spinster, this Parish
    Witnesses: Mary Ann Gardner; John Shaw (X)
    Married by Banns by William Jeff, Minister
    Register: Marriages 1832 - 1837, Page 38, Entry 114
    Source: LDS Film 1655235 item 7

The Mary Ann Gardner identified as a witness was Emma Gardner's elder sister.  Both were Christened in St.Elphin's Church, Warrington, daughters of Jesse Gardner, a flour merchant. 

There's also a death of an Emma Spencer in Dallam Lane in 1839:

Burial: 26 Feb 1839 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire
Emma Spencer -
    Age: 22
    Abode: Dallam Lane
    Buried By: Geo Richards Curate
    Register: Burials 1836 - 1841, Page 152, Entry 1212
    Source: LDS Film 1562962

The corresponding Death Certificate identifies Emma Spencer as the wife of Edward Spencer, a potter.

Edward Spencer went on to marry a second time, on 25 April 1841, to Alice Looker, my 2nd Great-Grandmother, at Stepney Congregational Chapel, Warrington (Edward was Christened in that Chapel, as were almost all his siblings).  The 1841 Census shows Edward and Alice living in Dallam Lane but there's a 6 year-old daughter, Jane, living with them.  Clearly, Jane was not a daughter of Alice and so must have been a daughter of Emma.  However, I can find no corresponding Christening record in either Warrington or Prescot areas, and Jane doesn't appear in any later Census records.  Neither can I find a suitable burial record for her. 

Now for the really puzzling part.  The following Christenings took place in Stepney Congregational Chapel in 1836.  Both are sons of an Edward Spencer but the spouse's name is Hannah and not Emma.  However, the second child's name is of particular interest because Emma Gardner's father was Jesse Gardner:

Baptism: 27 Apr 1836 Stepney Congregational, Warrington, Lancashire
James Spencer - Son of Edward Spencer & Hannah
    Born: 22 Apr 1836
    Abode: Warrington in the County of Lancaster
    Baptised By: Alfred John Morris, Protestant Dissenting Minister
    Notes: [Double entry on same record as Jesse Gardner Spencer]
    Register: Baptisms 1798 - 1837, Page 21, Entry 170
    Source: LDS Film 560904

Baptism: 27 Apr 1836 Stepney Congregational, Warrington, Lancashire
Jesse Gardner Spencer - Son of Edward Spencer & Hannah
    Born: 22 Apr 1836
    Abode: Warrington in the County of Lancaster
    Baptised By: Alfred John Morris, Protestant Dissenting Minister
    Notes: [Double entry on same record as James Spencer]
    Register: Baptisms 1798 - 1837, Page 21, Entry 170
    Source: LDS Film 560904

There are burial records for a infant children James and Jesse Spencer in June and July 1836, both in Dallam Lane, which likely ties to these twins:

Burial: 19 Jun 1836 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire
James Spencer -
    Age: Inf
    Abode: Dallam Lane
    Buried By: Horace Powys
    Register: Burials 1831 - 1836, Page 282, Entry 2249
    Source: LDS Film 1562961

Burial: 24 Jul 1836 St Elphin, Warrington, Lancashire
Jesse Spencer -
    Age: Inft
    Abode: Dallam Lane
    Buried By: T V Bayne
    Register: Burials 1831 - 1836, Page 285, Entry 2279
    Source: LDS Film 1562961

I can find no marriage of an Edward Spencer to a Hannah Gardner, nor can I find a suitable Christening for a Hannah Gardner, and certainly not one that matches the connection to a Jesse Gardner in the same way that Emma Gardner does.

It seems to me that Edward Spencer and Emma Gardner had 3 children, named Jane, James and Jesse, the latter being twins.  This means that we're lacking a Christening record for Jane, and that the Christening records for James and Jesse incorrectly identify their mother as Hannah. 

I know the good folk on RootsChat have an eye for detail and can often find nuances that I miss.  Do any of the cognoscenti out there have a thought on whether this theory is the most reasonable conclusion to be drawn from the available evidence?

Offline emeltom

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Re: Children of Edward Spencer of Dallam Lane?
« Reply #1 on: Sunday 27 October 24 09:30 GMT (UK) »
The image of the baptism entry for James and Jesse is on FindMyPast and it definitely says Hannah. It may be that the church official misheard the name.
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Offline Buffnut453

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Re: Children of Edward Spencer of Dallam Lane?
« Reply #2 on: Sunday 27 October 24 11:17 GMT (UK) »
Yes, the original Christening records for James and Jesse Gardner Spencer clearly show their mother’s name as Hannah.  The only logical explanations are that the recorder mis-heard the mother’s name or that the surviving record is a later copy that mis-transcribed Emma into Hannah. 

This is the nub of why I created the thread.  I’m wondering if I’m leaping to conclusions here.  I don’t think I am but sanity checks are always appreciated.  My forays into RootsChat have always generated thoughts that offer additional insights.