RAF crash 13 or 14 June 1940 near Le Grand Luce , Sarthe France.

[John hawthorn]

Andy J2022  I thought you would like to know that there has been significant progress on the search for Edmund Roberts grave.  Recap:  He died 13 June 1940 in the Gen. Hospital No:9 at Le Grand Luce.  There are 4 unidentified graves and 2 vacant plots in the CWGC cemetery at Le Gran Luce.  The hospital records said that 3 RAF OR were brought into the mortuary late on 14 June - 2 identified & 1 unknown.  I had already establishe that 1 unidentified grave was almost certainly Major Richard Cooper-White; 1 was Edmund Roberts; & 1 contained a button from the uniform of the Royal Atillery.  I contended with CWGC that the body count from hospital records correlated to the number of the graves in the cemetery, including the RAF OR's.  They responded that 2 RAF OR's were exhumed and relocated with their other crew colleagues elsewhere (no names, squadren or details provided despite my request for these).  So we now had 2 unidentified graves and 2 people, Edmund Roberts and the unidentified RAF OR.  I have now been informed that the Joint Casualty & Compassionate Centre (JCCC) have accepted that Major Cooper-White is in a specific grave; that Gunner Joseph Humphries is in the grave where the Royal Artillery button was found; that Edmund Roberts is in 1 of the 2 other graves; and, Private William Falconer (service number 2976134 - Argyle & Sutherland Highlanders) is in the other.  There will be a rededication ceremoney on 24 June 2025, at the cemetery in Le Grand Luce, to confirm this.  I and a few other family members will be there.  I have tried to engage with the Royal Signals Museum to see if they are interested, but have had absolutely no response.  I have not been able to square off the hospital records suggesting the third, unidentified RAF OR with the JCCC establishing it is Private William Falconer in the 4th grave.  Interestingly he appeared in casualty list 236 as "died" and again in casualty list 352 corrected to "died as a result of an accident 14 June 1940".

[Andy J2022]

Hi John,
Thanks for the update. I'm pleased you have finally solved this problem. Very disappointing that you haven't received a response from the Royal Signals. Rather than the Museum, I would suggest contacting the Secretary (Col (Retd) D A Craft) of the Royal Signals Association: rsa@royalsignals.org Office Tel: 01258 482130 or 0300 1632365

You will probably receive a reply from the Assistant Secretary, Lt Col (Retd) SM Lockwood.
I feel sure he will arrange for the Corps to be represented at the re-dedication ceremony.

[John hawthorn]

Andy - Many thanks

[John hawthorn]

I have contacted the Joint Casualty & Compassionate Centre regarding the matter as to whether Edmund's regiment, Royal Corps Of Signals, were aware of the Rededication Service and received this response:-

"I have been in contact with The Royal Corps of Signals. The service will be attended by 2 of their soldiers, a Padre from The Royal Regiment of Artillery, a trumpeter from The Royal Welsh and a soldier from The Royal Armoured Corps. We have 7 soldiers we will be holding rededication services for that week, 4 at Le Grand-Luce and 3 in Normandy. These regiments represent nearly all of the regiments who the soldiers we are commemorated belonged to."

[Andy J2022]

That's a bit disappointing. I'm sure there would be no shortage of volunteers to go and represent their Corps.

[AncestryPete]

Superb detective work, very well done.
Enthusiasts succeed where officialdom was too lazy - and no I don't mean CWGC, that honour should remain with MOD Historical branches, and an honour it is to try, yet alone succeed. A duty which should not go away while lads lie unidentified.

Wonderful work by gifted researchers.

[John hawthorn]

With regard to the Dedication Service of the four graves, as yet, with no names; I have now found out from Joint Compassion and Casualty Centre (JCCC of the MOD) that there will be representatives of Edmund Roberts' regiment, Royal Corps of Signals, in attendance, among others.  6 members of Edmunds family will also be there, including 1 grandson, 2 great grand children and 1 great great grandson.  Edmund died in the Chateau at Le Grand Luce, which was being used as a military hospital at the time, 48 hours before the Germans arrived - the hospital having been evacuated.  I hope that we might be able to visit the place he actually died.  However, it is a very, very exclusive hotel (and very expensive).  And of course it will not look anything like it did in 1940.

I had not previously heard of the JCCC.  Clearly they do a lot of marvellous work researching and finding lost fallen heros.