Does anyone recognise this photo John Thomas Smith b 11 May 1887 in Newark Notts

[patval]

I hope someone can identify the gent in the photo attached..

My grandfather John Thomas Smith he was born in Newark Notts on 11th May 1887 parents Thomas Smith & Rebecca Judson. On the Census 1891 he is 4 years old  a scholar living with his parents and 2 sisters at 14 New Street Newark Notts. John married Sarah Ann Isaac in Bingham Notts in 1908 and on the census of 1911 he is recorded as being married for three years with 3 children working as a Farm labourer. He died in Thorpe Salvin in 1948. when I was just a few months old,  I also lived in Thorpe.

I have our family tree on Ancestry and a few months ago a hint popped up for John Thomas Smith, out of interest I took a look at the hint.. There he was John Thomas, wife Sara and all his children, my father Cecil Maurice was included plus his wife, my mother Sylvia Daines.. What was most exciting was a profile picture of John Thomas.. I say most exciting as we have no photo's of my grandfather in later years.. My father said he was white haired and had a moustache.

Looking closer at the facts I read that this John had been born in Pocklington in May 1886 ?? I have followed him through the census years and found he married a Sara when he was aged 25 and he is recorded as being a grocer's assistant. So, I got in touch with the tree owner to clarify this discrepancy... no reply, I have contacted the tree owner since but receive no reply..

I do not care that the tree owner has got her facts wrong what does upset me is she does not respond... My sister and I would love this profile photo to be of our Granddad but I have serious doubts... This is a long shot... perhaps someone will read this and recognise John.....

Patricia

[CaroleW]

Your John Thomas is on the 1939 register but gives 1886 as his birthyear - had you looked at that entry?   He was b 1887 as per freebmd

It is clear from the tree that this is a completely different person to your JTS.  Born Yorkshire , Different parents, wife etc etc  His birth is on freebmd & GRO online confirms his mmn was Rhodes as per the tree

The description you were given of your JTS could fit any number of men of that age & time

[patval]

Yes I have looked at that entry. However, my grandfather was born on 11th May 1887 at 3 Crescent Place, Cherry Holt Lane, Newark Notts, and was registered on 31st May of the same year I have his birth certificate.. He was baptized on 31st July 1887 at the church in Thorpe by Newark (not to be confused with Thorpe Salvin) I also have documentation for that, so my grandfathers origins are well known to us... and although we have earlier photos of grandfather taken c 1930-40 we have non of his later years, which my sister and I would dearly like to have..
 
Therefore, I contacted the owner of the tree who has John Thomas born in Pocklington to ask if she would kindly tell me how she had obtained the photograph of John and was it from a family member, if it was in fact a photo of John from Pocklington then she has made an error including my parents and grandparents in her tree.

My description of John being grey and having a moustache prompted me to contact the tree owner as had the photo shown a dark or Bald headed old geezer I would not have bothered. 

I merely placed this request in the vain hope that someone may just recognise the photo.

Patricia

[larkspur]

There are several people who have this photo on their trees. Two have JTS as being the son of William Johnson Smith and Sarah Ann Rhodes of Pocklington. The photo is clipped from a larger one, he is with two younger ladies. Someone has commented " Not sure if this is our Jack Smith but other person in picture is Anne" The person who originally shared the photo, has it linked to an Eileen Smith. Eileen being the daughter of John Thomas. I would get in touch with the person who originally posted the photo and hope they reply. I think the lady may have just added him as his name was the same.
Rebecca Judson was my 2C3R.

[patval]

Thank you so much Larkspur. I shall be in touch with the tree owner, I am sad that the photo of JT is most probably not my grandfather. However, the tree appears to have my grandfathers death recorded not JT's from Pocklington.

Burial 10/12/1948  John Thomas SMITH  Age 62  Thorpe Salvin

Thorpe Salvin is in the district of Rother Valley. He is buried to the side of my grandmother Sara Anne in St Peters churchyard there. Thorpe Salvin is where he lived and worked for the latter part of his life.. Sadly they are unmarked graves but I visit regularly as my parents are buried there also.

The above burial information was taken from Church documentation.

We are related I see as Rebecca was my grt grandmother..

Once again thank you.

Patricia.
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[MollyC]

Thorpe Salvin is in the district of Rother Valley.

To put this in context - Thorpe Salvin is the Yorkshire parish which has a boundary with both Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire.  Pocklington is about 50 miles to the north.

[patval]

Quite right...

Thorpe Salvin can be found on the 'List of Places in Rother Valley Registration District'. It is a small village located in the district of Rotherham, South Yorkshire, and is indeed a good way from Pocklington.

The village is close to Steetley where it was once possible to stand on the exact point where the boundaries met However.

https://www.townandvillageguide.com/South_Yorkshire/Thorpe_Salvin.html

Re-planting 'The Shire Oak'

Shireoaks
England

Although there are many variants to the spelling of Shireoaks, the general name of the place is said to derive from an oak tree near the village. The tree -or possibly trees - stood near the meeting place of the three shires, Nottinghamshire, Derbyshire and Yorkshire and the branches are said to have hung over the three counties. The site, which is generally accepted as the original one - is now entirely in Nottinghamshire due to changes in the boundaries over the centuries. Ordnance survey maps show the tree on a site to the west of Steetley, where as in fact it was in the corner of Shireoaks Park where the road branched off from Steetley Lane. The original tree is no longer in existence, it is recorded that the original tree survived until about 1800. There is a suggestion that a new tree was planted some time before 1864. This tree disappeared and is thought to have been cut down by vandals. From this date, until 1951 there was no 'Shire-oak'. On the 5th of April 1951 as part of the 'Festival of Britain' celebrations the Mayor of Worksop, John Wilkinson planted a young sapling, assisted by Charles Haslehurst (park superintendent), but this tree died and fortunately a group of residents replaced the sapling which still survives. In the very early days the forest of Sherwood did extend to Shireoaks and into the Park, the present ponds are believed to have been the marshes within the woods.

Patricia
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[MollyC]

And the Derbyshire parish is Whitwell, mentioned in the Anglo-Saxon chronicle in AD 942 as being at the northern boundary of Mercia.

[patval]

I didn't know that MollyC. I know Whitwell very well, they say you learn something new every day..

Patricia
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