Author Topic: Placename in Fordyce - possibly Drums of Muirake  (Read 1179 times)

Offline carolapple

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Re: Placename in Fordyce - possibly Drums of Muirake
« Reply #9 on: Friday 04 October 24 21:49 BST (UK) »
Hi Forfarian
Your info on Drums and Greens is really helpful.  In the case of Drums of Muirake it's described as on a spur of Knock Hil - that fits perfectly.
The colour green may be the most likely for Greens of Burgie explanation, as the Burgie vicinity is not right on the coast, it's a north facing area gently sloping up to a minor ridge/hill (Califer Hill).  The location crops up on a gravestone, 1856 "John Murray late Farmer, Greens of Burgie".  His death certificate has place of death as "Hill of Burgie".  Perhaps I'll try study the census enumerator's sequence and see if I can glean any clues from the adjacent households he visited.

Thanks for explaining who the Mr Murray, Banker is likely to be, and how those notes occurred.  Murray being a very common name in these parts.  I will look closer just in case there's a family connection.

Thanks everyone for all your help, I'm learning so much!
Carol
Scotland - Wigtown MCKIE FRASER, Glasgow ROGERSON KELLY CAMPBELL, Forres MURRAY BLACK ANDERSON MACKENZIE.
England - Croydon SPANSWICK STEVENS MANSER

Online Forfarian

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Re: Placename in Fordyce - possibly Drums of Muirake
« Reply #10 on: Saturday 05 October 24 09:15 BST (UK) »
Got it! I've now had time to take a look at the maps and census for Greens of Burgie.

See https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=16.2&lat=57.59499&lon=-3.52682&layers=6&b=ESRIWorld&o=100
and
https://www.geograph.org.uk/gridref/NJ0857 - so it's still there.

On the First Edition of the Ordnance Survey six-inch map it's one of a number of places mapped as Burgiehill, but on the Second Edition it is specifically named as Greens of Burgie.

There is some information about it at https://libindx.moray.gov.uk/mainmenu%2Easp, in particular confirming that it is or was part of Burgie Estate.
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.

Offline carolapple

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Re: Placename in Fordyce - possibly Drums of Muirake
« Reply #11 on: Monday 07 October 24 10:42 BST (UK) »
Hi Forfarian
That's brilliant!  It's a great feeling to "find" the place.  And I was so close - almost exactly 2 years ago I had a few days in the Forres area.  I had a drive around and paused at Califer Hill viewpoint.  Only 500m short.
Greens of Burgie was home to my great-great-great grandparents.

A learning curve.  I was clearly incorrect in thinking that if a place was named on those old maps, it would be searchable in ScotlandsPlaces.

Libindx is always worth a look too, thanks for reminding me.  Sometimes some gems there.  I'll look at the newspaper item in particular

Thanks very very much  :)
Scotland - Wigtown MCKIE FRASER, Glasgow ROGERSON KELLY CAMPBELL, Forres MURRAY BLACK ANDERSON MACKENZIE.
England - Croydon SPANSWICK STEVENS MANSER

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Re: Placename in Fordyce - possibly Drums of Muirake
« Reply #12 on: Monday 07 October 24 11:08 BST (UK) »
A learning curve.  I was clearly incorrect in thinking that if a place was named on those old maps, it would be searchable in ScotlandsPlaces.
Unfortunately that doesn't always work :(

Not that it's always obvious why not. Greens of Burgie is enumerated in the 1841 and 1861 census, but not in 1851, when it is probably included in Burgiehill or Hill of Burgie. The Name Books were compiled in the middle of the 19th century, after the 1841 census, so it's hard to understand why Greens of Burgie wouldn't have been recorded in the 1850s or 1860s.

The other thing about Scotlandsplaces is that you can't use wildcards or fuzzy matching to pick up different spellings of a place name, which means that you may not find the less obvious variants. Though I don't this would have affected finding Greens of Burgie.

 
Never trust anything you find online (especially submitted trees and transcriptions on Ancestry, MyHeritage, FindMyPast and other commercial web sites) unless it's an image of an original document - and even then be wary because errors can and do occur.


Offline carolapple

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Re: Placename in Fordyce - possibly Drums of Muirake
« Reply #13 on: Monday 07 October 24 20:21 BST (UK) »
Thank you.  So helpful to understand  :)
Scotland - Wigtown MCKIE FRASER, Glasgow ROGERSON KELLY CAMPBELL, Forres MURRAY BLACK ANDERSON MACKENZIE.
England - Croydon SPANSWICK STEVENS MANSER