Author Topic: Help need to understand dna results Please Halpogroup GZ37368 match Aminoff  (Read 1020 times)

Offline RickyJack

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Help need to understand dna results Please Halpogroup GZ37368 match Aminoff
« on: Wednesday 02 October 24 02:56 BST (UK) »
Hi to the Group.

Would some kind person Please explain to me our results..It was recommended by FTDNA to join the Swedish DNA group, but I dont understand the results or where to go from here.

We are LEOV our Ancestor born 1824-1918  changed his name following the gold to Sacramento and Wisconsin USA then Australia then New Zealand,

 Our closest match with FTDNA big Y was a descendant of the noble Family 456 of Aminoff and Achkasov    also Feodor Aminev 1565-1628..Haplogroup G-Z37375  Sadly he died before we could work out a connection....unsure of where to go from here....tips and suggestions very welcome

We are Haplogroup G-Z 39512 [FTDNA] and GZ37368 [23 and me]  We have Leov on Gedmatch  AJ5657925    and   T626575.

With no DNA matches to Leov, Leo and Leopold, we are just trying to find a surname we can trust....Can anyone help us Please

Kind Regards from Australia   Rick Cragg for my Mums Leov side




Offline David Nicoll

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Re: Help need to understand dna results Please Halpogroup GZ37368 match Aminoff
« Reply #1 on: Tuesday 29 October 24 17:41 GMT (UK) »
Hi Rick,

    You don’t say when the most recent common ancestor is with you and your match. This will tell you how relevant it is.
    If it is recent 1700 on, it suggests either a name change or an NPE, if it is older it does not really tell you much apart from a potential area of origin, what does the Globetrekker report tell you.
More useful is probably the hard work of using Autosomal DNA to start grouping matches and then matching those groups to one side or other of the family and then working backwards.
If you are not sure of these ancestors, you will need to look for matches within these groups and hope some kind people have big trees to help you work out those familial links.
FTDNA people typically don’t have big trees, so if that is the only place you have had your DNA tested you are probably better uploading to one of the other sites that alllows it.

I hope this makes sense.
Nicoll, Small - Scotland Dennis - Lincolnshire, Baldwin - Notts. Gordon, Fletcher Deeside

Offline RickyJack

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Re: Help need to understand dna results Please Halpogroup GZ37368 match Aminoff
« Reply #2 on: Wednesday 30 October 24 17:59 GMT (UK) »
Hi David,
Thanks for your reply, I'd given up getting an answer as I now think the DNA thingy only works if you have a surname you can trust, meaning there are 8 billion people in this world and only 40 million have tested....seems like best to sit back and wait for a close match to come in..for example our ancestor married Irish their two sons married Scottish and English, so on MyH alone we have over 15000 matches each however only about 200 are European [the origin of our ancestor] and the shared segments are quite small and therefore distant..Im only interested in 200 years not stoneage .I did check globetrotter is says closest ancestor 1750 CE and 2 from Germany 
Cheers Rick

Offline David Nicoll

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Re: Help need to understand dna results Please Halpogroup GZ37368 match Aminoff
« Reply #3 on: Wednesday 30 October 24 22:40 GMT (UK) »
Rick,

  Hi, no I would say that is not the case about having a surname you trust. The idea is it gives you clues that you can research around.
  I have 9 matches, on me and one other share a variation of the same surname. But this tells us that our surname or variant was in use by the family before 1650 or so.
  It gives some clues as to where we should look further.
  Hopefully in time we will get more matches.

  So back to your situation. Just to clarify things. So you are looking at your mothers family. So you got a male sibling, cousin, uncle or her father to do the YDNA test?
   With regards your match. Looking at the information provided by FTDNA for your haplogroup.
   We get :
      Your haplogroup appeared between 1200 and 1750 with a most likely of about 1500.
      As you say there is a link to the Aminoff family.
      Wikipedia says there are three branches, of which the Russian Branch is extinct.
      This may not be correct. It is simply that the family that there are records of are extinct.
      FTDNA suggests joining the Swedish group as here and Finland are where the known family members are currently and so you might be able to work out your ancestor more easily.
      However this is more a waiting game.
      You mention sadly that your match has died which is sad, but the link may have been before most records given the proposed date of origin of your haplogroup.
   
       I would recommend progressing with your Autosomal data with MH.

       The first thing is to make your tree as big and wide as you can.
       Cousins, 2 cousins etc. the bigger the tree, the easier it is to start to make sense of the groups from the next step.
       Also you are providing the MH system more data to find links.

       Now start grouping matches using labels.

       Starting with you closest match give them a label, then use that label to tag the people who are shared DNA matches.
       Repeat with the next closest match who is not in this group.
       And so on.
       Once you have say 8 groups you need to start looking at any trees they have and see if you can link those trees, you don’t need to absolutely link them, location may give pointers, so I have some of my unknown groups labeled, Scotland and Licolnshire, England.
       Once you have started this process you can expand it to more groups.
       Hopefully once you start this process you will be able to start assigning matches to each parent and grandparents line.
       Obviously you make this simpler if you start with your mothers family Autosomal DNA, you are halving the number of family matches.
       This is the method I use myself.
       There are many, one of the best known is what is called the Leeds method.
       I suggest you do some research into this and DNA genealogy more widely, it is not a silver bullet.
       Have you generated an MH Autocluster? This automatically does something like I have described, but is not so useful with smaller matches.

       Finally do not despair with smaller matches, I have made contact with and built trees linking people who I have 10cM / 5th - 6th cousin matches.

        This has ended up being slightly longer than I had anticipated, feel free to ask for clarification, or PM me.

        Happy Hunting


       


Nicoll, Small - Scotland Dennis - Lincolnshire, Baldwin - Notts. Gordon, Fletcher Deeside


Offline RickyJack

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Re: Help need to understand dna results Please Halpogroup GZ37368 match Aminoff
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 31 October 24 00:04 GMT (UK) »
Hi David,
Wow..Thanks again, I can see you really know your DNA stuff...However Im not sure I can help you...because, our ancestor is our complete brick wall....I already have names of the entire Leov family from his marriage in 1865 ..nearly 3000 names and 1049 different families came from this relationship ...we do not even know his parents names.
My Mum and 2 brothers had dna done with FTDNA and her 2 cousins have tested ..2 with Big Y all in their 80-90's therefore born 1930-40's our ancestor died 1918..not much of a gap...2 with 23and me they all are on MyH...one on ancestry...all on Gedmatch
I have found our younger cousins are getting into dna, to me,  is sweet and sour.. sweet they are interested in family rather than some of the distractions of life nowerdays ..sour that they bog auto clusters down with people we already know
If I send you a PM with my email address would you fancy to have a quick look at one of the Big Y kits?? with my limited knowledge I fully suspect you will find something I have overlooked..
no wonder I have grey hair.!!!!..cheers Rick

Offline David Nicoll

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Re: Help need to understand dna results Please Halpogroup GZ37368 match Aminoff
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 31 October 24 00:19 GMT (UK) »
Rick,

   Hi, it sounds like you have a good basis!
   That is why Autoclusters is simply a start.
   It is then a more manual process or you need to use some of the other tools that are available but they might not help much in your situation.
   I have downloaded the match information and you can sort the data to give you clusters that may be less statistically significant, but might find that clinical match.
   The Autocluster algorithm seems to have quite a High Cutoff, for good reasons, but I think it misses matches.
   Have you looked at some of the others threads about clustering and the tools available?
   One thing to do in MH is to sort by your matches closest relatives, it can help in building their trees.
    I am happy to have a look if you would like, though as I have said it is a slow process.
   
Nicoll, Small - Scotland Dennis - Lincolnshire, Baldwin - Notts. Gordon, Fletcher Deeside

Offline Biggles50

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Re: Help need to understand dna results Please Halpogroup GZ37368 match Aminoff
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 31 October 24 22:52 GMT (UK) »
You say two Brothers tested, were they your Brothers or are they your Uncles?

FTDNA is now links with My Heritage but additionally I suggest taking an Ancestry DNA test as they have vastly more tested people than My Heritage and ftDNA and this should give you access to even more matches.

Also uploading DNA to Gedmatch will link to all those who have tested with 23&me or Migration and they in tern have also uploaded to Gedmatch.

With a yDNA test you will be very, very lucky to find matches with the surname you seek

Offline RickyJack

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Re: Help need to understand dna results Please Halpogroup GZ37368 match Aminoff
« Reply #7 on: Friday 01 November 24 00:04 GMT (UK) »
Hi Biggles,
Two Uncles ..Mums brothers in their 80-90 age group ..we are also on Ancestry....we are all on Gedmatch
When doing dna "naïvely' I imagined that...for example...if from 15000 matches if Smith came up in 78 of the matches I would have said that there was a better than fair chance our real surname was Smith....not so....turns out that if the shared segments are to small it means the match is further back in time ..we are only researching 200 years ..our relation died 1918 Mums brothers born 1930-40's..we just cant get a surname or ancestorial surname that pops up often...
Why using Ydna will I be lucky to get matches to our surname??? I will admit that we dont have any matches to Leopold so far
Thanks again Rick

Offline Biggles50

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Re: Help need to understand dna results Please Halpogroup GZ37368 match Aminoff
« Reply #8 on: Friday 01 November 24 06:57 GMT (UK) »
The reason I said that you will be lucky is simply down to numbers yDNA tests are not as popular as an atDNA test.

I took a yDNA test with ftDNA but only the 111, and I have hundreds of matches but with only three that have the surname or a different spelling of the surname.  Most of them pointing to a common ancestor centuries ago, even the closest is 1750.

A process that I use within Ancestry is to create 8 Groups labelled 1 through 8 which represent my 8 Great Grandparents. 

Then I went through the DNA Matches that are linked into my tree and assigned them to the appropriate G GP Group.  Then revisited each and looked at the Shared Matches and assigned them to the same Group(s).

The DNA Matches that are not assigned to any G GP are then the ones of interest and therefore the ones to research.

DNA does not always give the results, we can have to wait for more tests to be taken. 

I have been looking for 8 years for an unknown GG GF, and so far nobody looks likely and as we are talking about a 3C or further relationship with a direct descendant of the GG GF of my generation that is quite a cM span.  The reality being it may well be a descendant of the Father, Grandfather or Great Grandfather of the unknown GG GF who provides the DNA to point into the family line and even then producing the final hypothesis as to who the person was will be ifs and buts as there could be dozens of candidates.

Hence you have to get lucky, be flexible and try all the available tools, you seem to be on the right track.