Help needed with researching Grandfathers service records WW2

[Bidr]

Evening all,

I have been searching online to see if I can find any service records WW2 for my Grandfather.  I have searched on ancestry and national archives with zero results. 

I have today ordered his death cert today hoping to search via the GOV site.

Is there anyone out there who could help before the death cert arrives?

John William Morris
1913–1979
Birth 16 MAR 1913 • London, Middlesex, United Kingdom,
Service Number:7931119 TROOPER
Served in the Royal Armoured Corps in Egypt

[Kiltaglassan]

I have today ordered his death cert today hoping to search via the GOV site.

Which Gov site are you talking about?

Is it this one?
https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-records-of-service/apply-for-the-records-of-a-deceased-serviceperson

[Bidr]

I have today ordered his death cert today hoping to search via the GOV site.

Which Gov site are you talking about?

Yes it is


Is it this one?
https://www.gov.uk/get-copy-military-records-of-service/apply-for-the-records-of-a-deceased-serviceperson

[Andy J2022]

Unless he was injured, listed as missing or prisoner of war, it's highly unlikely there will be any official records for him on line. The service records of men who served in the Army after 1920 were still with the MOD but are in the process of being transferred to the National Archives. Depending on where his records are, there are two different processes you need to follow to get a copy of his record. I suggest starting with the MOD, and if they categorically tell you his records have gone to Kew, then approach TNA. The MOD is only interested in proof that the subject is dead, and it can take a long time for them to process requests;TNA on the other hand treat requests as Freedom of Information requests and have arbitrarily imposed a time limit  which means they don't release records until 115 years after the date of birth of the individual. That said, if you are able to visit in person, you can look at his record and take photographs of it etc. As you mention a search of the currently indexed records at TNA does not bring up his record, but that doesn't mean it isn't there, just that they haven't gotten around to indexing it yet.

If you know anything more about which Royal Armoured Corps Regiment he served in you can also access the war diaries for that unit, and follow his unit through North Africa and possibly on into Italy in 1943. However he won't be named in the war diaries.

[Bidr]

Unless he was injured, listed as missing or prisoner of war, it's highly unlikely there will be any official records for him on line. The service records of men who served in the Army after 1920 were still with the MOD but are in the process of being transferred to the National Archives. Depending on where his records are, there are two different processes you need to follow to get a copy of his record. I suggest starting with the MOD, and if they categorically tell you his records have gone to Kew, then approach TNA. The MOD is only interested in proof that the subject is dead, and it can take a long time for them to process requests;TNA on the other hand treat requests as Freedom of Information requests and have arbitrarily imposed a time limit  which means they don't release records until 115 years after the date of birth of the individual. That said, if you are able to visit in person, you can look at his record and take photographs of it etc. As you mention a search of the currently indexed records at TNA does not bring up his record, but that doesn't mean it isn't there, just that they haven't gotten around to indexing it yet.

If you know anything more about which Royal Armoured Corps Regiment he served in you can also access the war diaries for that unit, and follow his unit through North Africa and possibly on into Italy in 1943. However he won't be named in the war diaries.

THANK YOU FOR THE INFO!

I'm not sure how to find his regiment.  I have attached images of his service book maybe it's there  but I'm not seeing it.   The war diaries sound interesting !

[Bidr]

Unless he was injured, listed as missing or prisoner of war, it's highly unlikely there will be any official records for him on line. The service records of men who served in the Army after 1920 were still with the MOD but are in the process of being transferred to the National Archives. Depending on where his records are, there are two different processes you need to follow to get a copy of his record. I suggest starting with the MOD, and if they categorically tell you his records have gone to Kew, then approach TNA. The MOD is only interested in proof that the subject is dead, and it can take a long time for them to process requests;TNA on the other hand treat requests as Freedom of Information requests and have arbitrarily imposed a time limit  which means they don't release records until 115 years after the date of birth of the individual. That said, if you are able to visit in person, you can look at his record and take photographs of it etc. As you mention a search of the currently indexed records at TNA does not bring up his record, but that doesn't mean it isn't there, just that they haven't gotten around to indexing it yet.

If you know anything more about which Royal Armoured Corps Regiment he served in you can also access the war diaries for that unit, and follow his unit through North Africa and possibly on into Italy in 1943. However he won't be named in the war diaries.

THANK YOU FOR THE INFO!

I'm not sure how to find his regiment.  I have attached images of his service book maybe it's there  but I'm not seeing it.   The war diaries sound interesting !

[Elastik]

My experience of using the MoD/NAT Archives to get my Uncle's WW2 records was that it is extremely protracted & there is nothing you can do to speed it up. Eventually I got the records & they are detailed. It was also free. I applied (as you will) first to the MoD using the on-line form + death cert. and waited 6 months. They emailed me & said that his records (like many others) had been transferred to the MoD team at the NAT Archives in Kew & that I should email them & quote the case number, which I did. The MoD/NAT Archives Team responded & explained it would take a long time. One year later I was still waiting. After 13 months I tried to initiate the Freedom of Information Case Review Procedure since the delay seemed disproportionate. The review request was accepted. A few weeks later I got the records. So start to finish I'd say it took 19 months. I visited the NAT Archives in person & even became a member which made absolutely no difference whatsoever. Staff there are very pleasant & helpful but there is nothing they can do. Basically WW2 records are still treated like state secrets. My advice is apply but do not wait or think about it. Find something else to do or occupy you. I may just have been unlucky. Good luck.

[Bidr]

My experience of using the MoD/NAT Archives to get my Uncle's WW2 records was that it is extremely protracted & there is nothing you can do to speed it up. Eventually I got the records & they are detailed. It was also free. I applied (as you will) first to the MoD using the on-line form + death cert. and waited 6 months. They emailed me & said that his records (like many others) had been transferred to the MoD team at the NAT Archives in Kew & that I should email them & quote the case number, which I did. The MoD/NAT Archives Team responded & explained it would take a long time. One year later I was still waiting. After 13 months I tried to initiate the Freedom of Information Case Review Procedure since the delay seemed disproportionate. The review request was accepted. A few weeks later I got the records. So start to finish I'd say it took 19 months. I visited the NAT Archives in person & even became a member which made absolutely no difference whatsoever. Staff there are very pleasant & helpful but there is nothing they can do. Basically WW2 records are still treated like state secrets. My advice is apply but do not wait or think about it. Find something else to do or occupy you. I may just have been unlucky. Good luck.

Thank you for your advice! My grandad served in Egypt and did go through Italy so very curious.

[Elastik]

I'm not saying don't do it. I'm saying you should apply but have other activities lined up to distract you from what will probably be a long wait.