Author Topic: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?  (Read 1849 times)

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?
« Reply #9 on: Sunday 22 September 24 12:07 BST (UK) »

Secondly, you asked what the abbreviation WPP stood for. I don't know but I suspect it was something to do with qualifying for a War Pension.
I don't know either, but there's an alternate suggestion here:
https://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=526056.0
Boo
Thanks for the suggestion Boo.

As I said I don't know for certain what WPP stands for, but I do doubt Plummiegirl's suggestion. Firstly, in the example she is talking about, the previous entry refers to Privilege Leave (the normal term for this type of leave). A weekend pass might well be deducted from a soldier's annual priv leave, but frequently isn't; a group of soldiers might be granted informal leave over a weekend from after the last parade on a Friday, provided that they were back in barracks for the first parade on the following Monday. I have never heard the expression Weekend Privilege Pass.

My second reason for doubting the explanation in the present thread is that 1.1.41 was a Wednesday, so if that was the date from which the WPP was effective, it couldn't have been a weekend pass.

Offline Elastik

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Re: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 22 September 24 16:10 BST (UK) »
Great! Thanks very much for all the feedback, the records are starting to make much more sense. It looks like Uncle Frank had a long and varied army career. He seems to have joined up in 1931 for 7 years & then 5 years in Reserve. This is made clear on the first attachment (page 1 of 36). He was 19 & it could be that his decision was economic since there was no work in 1931 & the country wasn't at war at that time. Looking at annual reports from his first 7 years I found the word "batman" mentioned a couple of times in Sept 1932 & 33. I've underlined these in red on the second attachment (page 26 of 36). This is a stroke of blind luck, I cannot see a way to find out which officer he served. So it seems that he was in the Reserve in 1939, maybe, when war was declared and he re-entered the army.

Offline Elastik

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Re: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?
« Reply #11 on: Monday 23 September 24 16:39 BST (UK) »
Family members say that Frank witnessed the death of the officer for whom he was a batman. If he had this role in 1932/3 there were no hostilities at that time so I can't see how it would have happened then. Maybe it happened when he was part of the BEF from Oct '39 to June '40 in France, otherwise he seems to have been in the UK. The attached record (8 of 36) says he was transferred to the Pioneer Corps in Oct 1941 and a few lines below (dated 27/11/43) it seems to say "Disenfranchised in BNAF" which I think is British North Africa Forces. However I can't see any details of where he might have been sent as part of the Pioneer Corps. Were they in North Africa?

Offline Jebber

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Re: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?
« Reply #12 on: Monday 23 September 24 17:49 BST (UK) »
The Officer May have been killed in an accident, possibly connected to something he was working on, not necessarily through hostilities.

The Pioneer Corps were involved in sorts of things like the Royal Engineers. Track laying, Engineering mine clearance etc.

I think you are misreading the word, it is Disembarked. Not disenfranchised.
CHOULES All ,  COKER Harwich Essex & Rochester Kent 
COLE Gt. Oakley, & Lt. Oakley, Essex.
DUNCAN Kent
EVERITT Colchester,  Dovercourt & Harwich Essex
GULLIVER/GULLOFER Fifehead Magdalen Dorset
HORSCROFT Kent.
KING Sturminster Newton, Dorset. MONK Odiham Ham.
SCOTT Wrabness, Essex
WILKINS Stour Provost, Dorset.
WICKHAM All in North Essex.
WICKHAM Medway Towns, Kent from 1880
WICKHAM, Ipswich, Suffolk.


Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?
« Reply #13 on: Monday 23 September 24 18:14 BST (UK) »
Quite a few things to pick out here. Firstly, confirmation of my earlier supposition that he was employed as cook with the Pioneer Corps. Then on 31 Oct 1942 he actually transferred to the Army Catering Corps. This Corps had been formed from March 1941, by gradually transferring all the regimental cooks into a single corps. The aim was the improve professional standards and allow greater flexibility in the deployment of cooks.

There is nothing to indicate that he continued to serve In a Pioneer Corps unit after re-badging to ACC. But equally there nothing to show he joined new unit. He is shown as proceeding overseas to BNAF in draft RVGZF, the code which signifies the convoy used to transport him. This convoy left the UK on 12 Nov 1943 and as Jebber has noted, they disembarked on 27 Nov 1943. The BNAF was the British component of the Allied forces in Morocco and Algiers (as distinct from the Eighth Army which was in Egypt then Libya and was moving Westwards towards Algeria in pursuit of the retreating Germans and Italians).

There would certainly have been large numbers of Pioneer Corps soldiers with the BNAF involved in offloading the huge quantities of stores, ammunition and fuel required to support the British effort in BNAF and for building a stockpile to reinforce the Eighth Army as they drew closer.

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?
« Reply #14 on: Monday 23 September 24 18:30 BST (UK) »
With regard to where his officer was killed, I would say this is more likely to have been during the Battle of France or the retreat to Dunkirk, than any other time. The RWK lost about two hundred officers and men in Belgium in early 1940. The unit war diaries for the period have not been digitised so you would need to visit TNA at Kew to see them, or get someone to look for you. They will undoubtedly record any officer deaths, although your man is unlikely to get a mention unless he did something special at the time (for instance administering first aid or getting the officer to the Regimental Aid Post etc).
Details of the relevant war diaries:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C163234
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C790697

Offline BushInn1746

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Re: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 24 September 24 11:09 BST (UK) »
Two follow up points.

You originally asked about Batmen. Although not an official appointment, the employment of batmen was authorised but the soldier concerned had to be willing to do the job. The officer concerned would be responsible for paying the batman for his extra duties at the going rate within the unit (a batman would not get rich on this!).

Secondly, you asked what the abbreviation WPP stood for. I don't know but I suspect it was something to do with qualifying for a War Pension.

Pay

I think W.P.P. will be to do with pay rates.

I have been looking up my 1942 King's Regulations of the RAF and they have several types of Pay and different Pay Status, with their own RAF names for it.

At one point I see this Serviceman was CTBA Ceased to be Attached.

The Army probably also had basic or a base pay.

Once they went to a Unit and/or go to Defensive / Fighting duty status they would get War Pay (depending upon their terms of engagement in the Army).

I see particular Royal Artillery personnel getting Granted WPP (elsewhere) when posted to an LAA Regt (Light Anti-Aircraft Regt) so the personnel are engaged to fight or provide defensive measures.

Granted W.P.P. / Granted WPP

Granted War Proficiency Pay
alias
Granted War-time Proficiency Pay

https://api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/commons/1941/may/27/war-time-proficiency-pay

Mark

Added: Not on this list, but I did find this list of Abbreviations & Acronyms

Though not affiliated with The National Archives, the independent Researching the Lives and Records of WW2 Soldiers website also contains a very useful list of Second World War abbreviations and acronyms
https://www.researchingww2.co.uk/ww2-abbreviations-acronyms/

In a link from Section 3 on here ... 
3. Abbreviations and acronyms used in the records

https://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/british-army-soldiers-in-service-after-1918/

Offline Andy J2022

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Re: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?
« Reply #16 on: Tuesday 24 September 24 11:37 BST (UK) »
Thanks for that Mark.
I think that is the correct explanation for WPP.

Offline Elastik

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Re: Do WW2 records ever indicate if the individual was appointed as a "batman"?
« Reply #17 on: Tuesday 24 September 24 20:03 BST (UK) »
Again I am extremely grateful for all the knowledge posters have shared with me. It's making the record much more personal. The mysterious "RVGZF" is mentioned again here with reference to his posting to BNAF, maybe it was the convoy. Uncle Frank had married Aunty Winnie in June 1939 and they had their daughter Brenda (only child, sadly now deceased) on 11/7/44, the birth is underlined in red on the attached sheet (21 of 36). This occurred in the emergency maternity home which had been set up in Ruskin College, Oxford, according to this record. Family life continued despite the war. After the birth it looks like Frank was promoted to Corporal possibly. He also got in trouble for cooking food in "an unauthorised place" in July 45 but this doesn't seem to have effected his war record which is very positive.