John Bruce Robertson

[DanWatts93]

Hello all,

Looking for some advice, as I have conflicting sources for my great-great grandfather the above named, John Bruce Robertson.

I have a marriage record to my great x2 grandmother, Jessie Napier, from the year 1904 where his age is given as 26, father's name is James Robertson and his mother's name is Mary Robertson M.S. Bruce.

I've not been able to find a birth record for a John Robertson in Aberdeenshire for around the year 1878, his year of birth implied by the marriage record, where the parents names are correct. However, I did find a birth record from 1873, so a 5 year discrepancy on the marriage record, but the mother's name is Margaret Robertson M.S. Bruce.

In my experience, Margaret and Mary aren't interchangebale names! I have also found census data for the family of James and Margaret Robertson, all consistent with the 1873 birth record, but I can't find her be referred to as Mary anywhere.

My intuition tells me this isn't the right person, but I cannot find James and Mary Robertson with a son called John born c. 1878 in all of Scotland, let alone Aberdeenshire! Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[Forfarian]

I wouldn't dismiss the possibility of confusion of Mary with Marg, which is an abbreviation that does occur. I have seen instances where these two dissimilar names have indeed been confused.

There are six births of Robertson children with mother's maiden name Bruce in New Pitsligo. Cross-checking with the IGI confirms that these are the children of James Robertson and Margaret Bruce, and this family is in New Pitsligo in 1881. See screenshots.

What was John's address when he married (in Old Deer) in 1904? Do you have the 1891 and 1901 census for John Robertson and the 1911 and 1921 census for John Robertson and Jessie Napier? Where do they say that John was born and what is his age?

The index to the 1911 census suggests that John and Jessie's family were in Peterhead: John 34, Jessie 32, Jessie 8, John 5, Elizabeth 2 and James 0. That implies that John was born in 1876/1877.

The index to the 1921 lists in Peterhead John B 43, Jessie 42, Elizabeth W 13, James N 10, Joan B 9, Alexander D 6 and Margaret M, 4. This puts John's birth at 1877/1878.

[CaroleW]

I don't know if it is significant but the 1904 marriage is entered twice on SP.  One entry shows male surname Bruce & the second entry Robertson

[CaroleW]

No marriage in the timescale for a Mary Bruce & James Robertson

1858 marriage in Rathen for a Margaret Bruce & James Robertson who are the couple shown in Forfarian's reply above

[Forfarian]

I don't know if it is significant but the 1904 marriage is entered twice on SP.  One entry shows male surname Bruce & the second entry Robertson

So it is.

That almost certainly indicates that John Robertson was illegitimate.

How, exactly, is his mother's name shown on his marriage certificate?

[ruthhelen]

There's a birth for a John Robertson Bruce in 1877 in Lonmay - no mother's maiden name showing in the index - I wouldn't mind betting that this is your man. There is a John Robertson, b. 1878 Lonmay in the 1901 census for Old Deer - he's a cattleman on a farm. Does this fit with what you have on his marriage record?

Ruth

[ruthhelen]

So, going out on a limb here - as I do - but nothing ventured, nothing gained  I’ve got a bunch of Robertsons in my family, so I was curious to see where this would lead…

There is a John Robertson, aged 4, b. Lonmay in the 1881 census in Lonmay. He's enumerated as the grandson of the head of the household, Jane Robertson - there are also three other children under 10 - Margaret, Joseph and Alexander, who are all children of Jane Robertson.

Following the censuses and Poor Relief registers, this Jane Robertson is Jane Watson, widow of Joseph Robertson (he died in 1880). This couple had at least three other children, including the eldest, a James Watson Robertson who was born in Gamrie in 1862, just before his parents married - he's in Longside with his parents in 1871, and in Peterhead as a farm servant in the 1881 census. He then emigrates to America around 1888 (where he married and had at least 4 children. He died in 1930 in Iowa). His mother died in 1891 in Kininmonth.

If he is John Bruce Robertson's father, he would have been pretty young - 14 or 15 - but it's not beyond the realms of possibility. Having had a look at John Robertson’s marriage to Jessie Napier in 1904, one of the witnesses is a Joseph Robertson, who could be Joseph Robertson, son of Joseph Robertson and Jane Watson - and therefore John Bruce Robertson’s uncle. Unfortunately, the addresses or occupations of the witnesses aren't included, so we can't be 100% certain - this Joseph Robertson was a blacksmith, and in Ellon in 1901.The other witness is James Napier, likely Jessie’s father (she was the daughter of James Napier and Jessie Munro). And just for clarity, the marriage registration says of John’s parents: James Robertson (farm servant) and Mary Bruce (domestic servant) - so no suggestion they were married.

As for Mary Bruce, the mother - looking at the 1877 birth record for John Robertson Bruce in Lonmay - and he is, indeed, the son of Mary Bruce, domestic servant at Mosstown in Lonmay - born 27 Dec 1876. Mary is at Mosstown in both the 1871 and 1881 censuses. She seems likely to be the Mary Bruce who was born to William Bruce and Elizabeth Rettie in Strichen on 10 Apr 1851. She’s with her parents in Strichen in 1861, and, as I say, in Lonmay at Mosstown in 1871 and 1881. Mary had at least one other illegitimate child - Alexander Bruce Ruxton, who was born in 1892 in Strichen - Mary is with Alexander in Strichen in both the 1901 and 1911 censuses.

So I think we can say with certainty, that the child born as John Robertson Bruce in Lonmay in 1876 is the son of Mary Bruce, domestic servant, and the same John Bruce Robertson who married Jessie Napier in 1904 (his place of birth is noted as Lonmay in the 1921 census). Whether James Watson Robertson is the father is, I think, still up for debate, but I’m not seeing any other obvious candidates at the moment.

Ruth