Calling Genealogy experts - this one has got me baffled

[Vickihuk]

Hello all

I am fairly new to researching my family tree, but quite happy with success so far. However, I have come up against a blocker and I just can't think of a logical explanation...

My Great Grandad Herbert Hargreaves, born April 1885 - I found his birth certificate and I know it is correct, as the birth date matches up to the 1939 register (where I can see his children, and residence etc). The location also matches. The birth certificate shows that there was no Father, and his Mother was never married (no former name). Interestingly, it looks like his Mother was illiterate as the informant was "mark of mother".

I also got a copy of Herbert's marriage certificate and it states his Father was "William Hargreaves" - could this be an out and out lie?

I then did research on the 1881 census and found information on a whole family from the same area, with William and Alice Hargreaves listed as their parents. On the 1891 census - Herbert appears as a 6 year old boy!

Stay with me....

I researched all of the siblings and even though the census's state that Alice and William were their parents, their birth certificates all showed that their actual parents were George and Sarah Hargreaves (formerly Greenwood) - all with the exception of Herbert! There was even another sibling (Ernest) born after Herbert, with George and Sarah as the parents. In 1901, all of the siblings including Herbert were living with the eldest sister - Annie.

This is where my head is going - Could Alice Hargreaves have been the sister to George and William. For whatever reason, George and Sarah's children lived with Alice and William (Herbert saw William as his father).

Or does anyone else have any theories?  This is really doing my head in!

Thanks,

Vicki

[Forfarian]

What was the name of Herbert's mother according to his birth certificate?

[mckha489]

Can you please direct us to the censuses you are looking at.

[Liam59]

I've not seen the census records but from the information in your post, perhaps William and George were brothers and the census could have recorded all the children living in the household as William and Alice's when some or all might have been their nephews/nieces instead. 

[heywood]

Welcome to Rootschat.
Could you have the wrong family in the census?
Here is ‘Herb’ Hargreaves in 1891 with parents George and Sarah and several siblings.
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QBKB-NW2
Herbert and Ernest both show as 5 yrs

Ancestry have the family as Hargraves and they live in Rochdale.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/ show the mother as Greenwood.
There is a Herbert Whitehead Hargreaves b 1885 with mother’s name Greenwood.

[haliared]

There is a Herbert Whitehead Hargreaves born in 1885 who died in Rochdale age 36 in 1921 but the OP had them alive in 1939?

[heywood]

George and Sarah with the older children are at 1881 4111/74/20 at 7, Buckley Place.
Children then are: Richard, Annie, Ellen and Emily.

There is a William and Alice Hargreaves in Bury with children Nelly and Emily at 1881 3860
Folio   93, Page number 10

[heywood]

Was your Herbert b Bury, Lancashire - 1885 with no mother’s maiden name GRO

[Mabel Bagshawe]

There's also a Herbert Hargreaves b c1884 who died in Bury in 1892

Slightly worryingly there's a career criminal b Bury c1886 who has a number of aliases including Herbert Hargreaves