Roman Catholic baptisms. Was proof of marriage of parents needed?

[Andy J2022]

I have previously researched an Irish family who arrived in Liverpool around 1856 and had a son baptised at St Anthony's on Scotland Road and the baptism register says they were 'conj' although they didn't actually marry in the Liverpool Register Office until a year later. That said, they already had a daughter born in Dublin in 1855, so maybe the priest was more inclined to accept their word that they were married. Interestingly the baptisms of their later children were conducted in a different Catholic church nearby, even though they remained at same address. 

I have also seen Catholic baptismal registration for a baby girl where the priest has later noted in the margin the details of her marriage in another parish, which implies that the officiating priest at the marriage had checked up on the bride.

[DianaCanada]

I might have missed something here, but RC marriages were not legal in England until 1836.  In fact I don’t think there were any RC churches operating legally until then.
I have a branch in Manchester which I am almost certain was Irish Catholic and arrived in the 1790’s. Baptisms, marriages, and deaths were found in C of E records, but after 1836 a few went back to baptizing their children at the RC church in Manchester.

[heywood]

You are right, I think, Diana but this is a baptism record. However it does record that the parents are married - ‘conj’ and ‘olim’ for Mary’s maiden name.

Pennines
You may be aware of this but there was a later baptism for John Leadbeater. The record you have posted has been corrected and does look to be ‘Joannes’ and ‘filius’ - John and son.

There is a baptism, 14th February 1830, with a birthdate 17th July 1829 with the same details.
This implies that the first John died and the later child named for him although I don’t see a death for him.
There is a death recorded for the child, Jesse, who was baptised in 1832 - records show ‘filia’ , daughter.
The transcript of the burial in ‘ England, Select Deaths and Burials, 1538-1991’ shows ‘male’.

[MollyC]

The restriction was only on marriages, and date is actually 1 July 1837, the introduction of civil registration.  Before that marriages could only be conducted in the C. of E. and a few small groups including Jews and Quakers.  After that marriages could take place in a registered church on the basis of "the registrar attended". 

[melba_schmelba]

A Roman Catholic priest would not just take the parent's word that they were married in the Catholic faith.  If they were from a different parish, they would need to provide some documentation from the parish where they married. If the parents were not married, a note of illegitimate (or natural child) would be noted on the baptismal record.

The priests received remuneration for performing the sacraments, so you can be assured that the priest would check to see if there was a marriage, if only to get the benefit of performing two sacraments.                                           

But surely that became impractical to check, especially with Irish immigration to GB or further afield? Especially in some cases since RC registers were not even properly kept or curated in 19th C Ireland.

[Pennines]

Thank you everyone for your thoughts.

Heywood - yes, I did have the baptism of a second John Leadbeatter born to James and Mary.

I never found his burial either and on my tree I have simply inserted 'before 1829' as the date.

I've completely given up on finding a marriage for the parents!

[california dreamin]

Just my two penn'orth worth here -

If you know where in Ireland the mother was from and can find her baptism *some* of the parish priests actually recorded next to their baptism the name, date and place their marriage took place. A real gift to find.

And - in terms of not locating a marriage for the couple, possibly in Ireland. The survival rate of parish records for Irish RC is really variable, and they might have some marriage registers in the parish but only for certain dates.  It's a mine field.

There was no civil registration for Catholics in Ireland until 1864.

I would still go on the likelihood they married.

CD

[Pennines]

Thank you.

Unfortunately I don't know where the bride was born -- Liverpool or Ireland and I suspect Ireland.

The groom states he was born in Scotland - but is NOT the James Leadbeatter baptised in Peebles in 1804. That one joined the Army and returned to Scotland.

My James was in Liverpool - Lancaster - Keighley - Dalton and Barrow in Furness!

His name and occupation always amused me - Leadbeatter - and he was a Tinman and Brazier.

This couple's origins will just have to remain a mystery. (I revisit them now and again, just to bang my head against that brick wall!)

[Sinann]

The practice of adding a note of marriage to the baptism came about with the introduction of Ne Temere Decree in 1908
https://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=35103