an opinion pleaseon finding the MRCA

[Essnell]

 I would appreciate an opinion on a problem in locating a MRCA for a match I have on both Ancestry and My Heritage.
  It is suggested in both instances that this person is a 3rd cousin and is on my maternal,paternal family side.

I have built, as often suggested, a tree around this person and this is quite extensive going both to descendants and to ancestors. It spans  5 generations.
The tree is not just a male line, it has siblings and their families etc for each generation line. I also have done most of the marriage partners as well.
I would have thought that this would connect into some other section of my main tree but it does not do so.

I thought that would be at the great grand Aunt or Uncle area judging by the cousin charts available. 

Any ideas on where to go next would be appreciated. 
Essnell.

[Biggles50]

Have you looked at and incorporated any Shared Matches in the tree?

If not I suggest that you do so, then import the tree’s gedcom file into DNA Painter’s WATO tool.

The results may give an indication via its numerical results of the probabilities.

You do not quote the cM figure which again in DNA Painter’ Shared cM tool will show the probabilities, but it shows the range of values that results in the Mean being given in the chart.  So there are other relationship possibilities that can be considered.

If you look at DNA Painter Shared cM chart at a 3C the mean cM is shown as 73cM, now look to the left to see a cM value near it and it could be that a Great Grandad played away from home.

If this could be correct then I would look at the locations the two would have been at, at the time of conception as in the case of an illegitimate birth records may not exist and what records there are may be falsified.

Good luck.

[Essnell]

Hi Biggles50

Thank you for replying. 

Here's the DNA cM values for this man. 
     88.1cM 
longest segment    38.3 cM

covers 5 segments.       

I had not thought of bringing in the shared matches so i can easily gather those  together.   

I  will complete the work on this part then see what happens on DNA painter etc. 
I shall also check which of the matches have any segments on same chromosomes. This could be useful also.

Essnell

[Biggles50]

Your figures does put the likely relationship in the 3C and 2C groups.

DNA Science has a tool which includes segments, suggest you use both this and DNA Painter with your matches.

https://dna-sci.com/tools/segcm/

It could be worth signing up for Pro Tools in Ancestry so you can see the actual shared cM values between your 88.1 and each of the shared matches.

This will help in finding the links as you can see the probable relationship between the 88.1 and a shared match.

Good luck

[Essnell]

Hi Biggles50,

I have looked at the match lists for my match with no connection. I have only confirmed where he ought to fit. 

This is the wife of my mother's, father's , father.  It is her family that migrated from Norfolk England . They have the same last name as that of the more distant ancestors of this chap. 

There are three matches all part of a specific section of that family. All recent and living.

 I have one with a surname from  the extended tree of my match. 

There is one other that should be connected to the first three, but more distantly, as there is a last name there from another earlier family. Totally different name.

Interestingly they all appear to be cousins 3rd 4th or even 2nd.

The link that you gave me says its 37%  for 3rd Cousin. Much smaller percentages for others.  There is also the possibility of half cousins, which could be from 2nd marriages.

This part makes sense but the matches tree just is not joining anywhere like one would expect.

It's an absolute headache!!!

At least I am on the right track in the forest.

I shall keep you posted as to what else i find here.   

thanks fr those suggestions. It's shifted something in a good direction.
Essnell

 


Ps.   I had already uploaded my Ancestry DNA to My Heritage so I checked for the match there and yes. The cM is higher and an extra segment. so 94.6 cM  and 6 segs.  =>  3rd cousin.       Essnell

[Biggles50]

I would build a standalone tree for the match and if possible include some of the shared matches by linking their branches in the tree.

I would then use the WATO tool to see what it supplies by way of possibilities.

Conversely it may well be that you might never find any documentation to support the tree route between the match and the family in question.

In which case you may well be left with the most probable relationship as the most viable option.

I have one in my family tree, one that gives a relationship that works, all be it without supportive documentation.

[AnotherDay]

Forgive me if you have already done this...

AncestryDNA and MyHeritage both provide a colour-coding system for DNA matches. Beginning with my closest matches, I have gone through systematically giving at least one coloured dot/square to each match (down to about 30 cM). As a starting point, my paternal matches get a blue dot/square and my maternal matches get a pinkish dot/square. In addition, I have a different coloured dot for each set of great grandparents. And I have coloured dots/squares for various other people/areas (e.g. Galway), where it is useful/interesting.

This means that any new match can almost always be instantly allocated as paternal or maternal. And very often I can also tell from which family line they come. If I want to work out more details about the match, I can look at their name (I have a few ancestors with rare names), their tree (if they have one), who they match and how much DNA they share with our shared matches (I have an Ancestry ProTools subscription). Some times the dots/squares show a mix of paternal and maternal dots/squares, which might indicate that it is a distant and/or dodgy and/or unreliable match.

If you have done this with your matches, you should be clear as to whether your match is paternal or maternal. And, unless you have recent mysteries in your family lines, you should have somewhat of an idea of which line they come from. Even with a recent mystery, you can allocate matches to coloured dots/squares - for example, the unknown grandfather might have a dot/square labelled Mystery Grandpa.

I have access to the DNA matches of someone whose ancestry is Norfolk going back several centuries. That person, interestingly, has far, far fewer matches than any other kit to which I have access.

[Essnell]

HI Biggles50

Thank you for the reply.

I already have that standalone tree for this match.   It does not help . 

WATO would give me the same possibilities as everything else has ,so it's just going round in circles.  I am looking seriously at an NPE some time back in the part where everyone is in England - specifically Norfolk. 

The match family was still in England when the test was done for DNA. The matches I am finding are all born here in Australia. So there has to be a connection back before 1871 when the early members immigrated from Norfolk. 

My next move I think should be to connect all the four people from Australia in a large pedigree diagram and see who are their MRCAs. 

It would help if these people had accessible trees, even wrong ones can be useful.   Thank you.

Hi AnotherDay, 
you caught me between postings.   i have done the dot/square labeling on both sites and it does help to assign matches to which side.  I have not looked at this mystery match in this way as yet , but  and I have only a vague idea as to where he links in.  I actually have not done it by parentage side so i should do that immediately.  He has to be on my maternal side given the people he links to in the match lists.
Thank you . You have given me more ideas to work with.

 Essnell. 

[AnotherDay]

Another thing, of course, is location, location, location! If you haven't already done so, you might like to pop a few dots on a map to show where your mob, and their mob, were between about 1800 and 1900.