Wills of Islington 1508 not proved at Canterbury

[emjsw]

Hi,

I wondered if anyone might know where residents of Islington might have had a will proved other than the Court of Canterbury please?

I am trying to find the will of Thomas Knyffe of Isolden c. 1508. I can't find it in searches of The National Archives, Ancestry, FindMyPast, the Court of Hustings or the London metropolitan archives. I am not sure which other courts residents of Islington might have used.

It might be that he was catalogued with a typo, or his will was accidentally skipped over or lost but I am pretty sure that:

1) The will at some point existed:
"1508 the executors of Knyff, Thomas, of Iseldon, Middx, gentleman, (Darset, William, of London, gent; Bayly, Richard, of St John Strete, Middx, yeoman), defendants in Common Pleas." https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40no983

2) That he existed:
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/afb8da94-b233-4e6e-be8d-71731af7156f

Best wishes, Emma

[Vance Mead]

In addition to the PCC, a will could be proved in the Consistory Court, Commissary Court, or Archdeaconry Court of London. These are at the London Metropolitan Archives, and copies on microfilm also at Guildhall Library (or at least were there when I looked about 15-20 years ago). Only the Consistory Court records go back to include a will from 1508.
https://www.thelondonarchives.org/your-research/research-guides/wills-in-london-middlesex-and-surrey-before-1858

The most likely explanation is that there was a will but it has not survived. Moth and rust doth corrupt, and thieves break through and steal.

There are some records of Knyff or Knyfe, Thomas, of Iseldon, gent, in Common Pleas and Kings Bench.

1492, Common Pleas
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Indices/CP40Indices/CP40no919/CP40no919Act.htm

1493 Kings Bench
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/KB27/926

1496 Kings Bench
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/KB27/939
.
 

[Watson]

In theory, Islington lay in the area covered by the Commissary Court of London.  The British Record Society published, as Volume 86:

Index to Testamentary Records in the Commissary Court of London, vol. II: 1489-1570, edited by Marc Fitch.

So you could try checking that, or an online equivalent, looking out for variant spellings of Knyff.

[Vance Mead]

I don't have access to that index for the Commissary Court. There's only a limited view on Internet Archive. On the London Archives page linked above it says their records for that court go back to 1524. But I have a will from there dating to 1389. I think I must have transcribed it at the Guildhall Library.

[Watson]

The British Record Society volume which I referred to above is a common book, so perhaps a Rootschatter has a copy.  If an entry is found in the index, I suppose it doesn't necessarily mean that the will has survived, but it seems worth a peep.

[emjsw]

In addition to the PCC, a will could be proved in the Consistory Court, Commissary Court, or Archdeaconry Court of London. These are at the London Metropolitan Archives, and copies on microfilm also at Guildhall Library (or at least were there when I looked about 15-20 years ago). Only the Consistory Court records go back to include a will from 1508.
https://www.thelondonarchives.org/your-research/research-guides/wills-in-london-middlesex-and-surrey-before-1858

The most likely explanation is that there was a will but it has not survived. Moth and rust doth corrupt, and thieves break through and steal.

There are some records of Knyff or Knyfe, Thomas, of Iseldon, gent, in Common Pleas and Kings Bench.

1492, Common Pleas
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Indices/CP40Indices/CP40no919/CP40no919Act.htm

1493 Kings Bench
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/KB27/926

1496 Kings Bench
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/KB27/939
.

Hi,

Thanks very much for sharing some other options for me to look at, I will look into the consistory court.

Thanks also for the links, all have been really helpful, particularly the last one as the reason I wanted to look at the will was to work out the relationship between Thomas Knyffe and Thomas Pym (Thomas Pymme refers to a cousin Knyffe that left him property in Islington in his 1549 will, but he calls is nephew a cousin too, so it is a loose term).

Secondly I am trying to work out how Thomas Pymme, Thomas Pymme alias Frere and Thomas Frere (sadler) in my tree are connected. The last link puts all of these names together!!! First time I have seen it despite all of the hours spent at various record offices!!! I am guessing through marrying but have yet to find proof.

I appreciate your help.
Best wishes,
Emma

[emjsw]

In theory, Islington lay in the area covered by the Commissary Court of London.  The British Record Society published, as Volume 86:

Index to Testamentary Records in the Commissary Court of London, vol. II: 1489-1570, edited by Marc Fitch.

So you could try checking that, or an online equivalent, looking out for variant spellings of Knyff.

Thank you very much for the names of the books that I could take a look at to see if he is indexed, I haven't found an online version yet but the library in my nearest city has one for reference so I will try and get there to find out 😊

[emjsw]

The British Record Society volume which I referred to above is a common book, so perhaps a Rootschatter has a copy.  If an entry is found in the index, I suppose it doesn't necessarily mean that the will has survived, but it seems worth a peep.

Thank you, I will see if I can post a look up request incase someone has a copy of it. If his name is in there I will contact the Guildhall as if they don't have the original, they might have a copy book. Thanks for your help.

[Vance Mead]

The Thomas Pym with the will in 1549/50 must be the son or grandson of the one in 1496.

There's a will of Thomas Pym of High Wycombe, 1505

https://shop.buckscc.gov.uk/s4s/WhereILive/Council?pageId=2347&pid=36803787-1a6a-4c46-bbfb-a5ad00f89b6b&supId=c988f85e-be98-4bf3-b184-a5ad00efd350&bcgId=fcea1611-2a26-4a1d-a4a6-b480f7423e14

In 1502 he is Common Pleas:
Pymme, Thomas, of Chepyng Wycombe, yeoman
https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40no959

And again in Common Pleas, in 1512, with his son:
Pymme, Thomas, son of Pymme, Thomas, senior, of Chepyng Wycombe, Bucks, gent
http://aalt.law.uh.edu/Indices/CP40Indices/CP40no998/CP40no998Def.htm