John Piper Sydney 1846-1856

[Piperatthegates]

Hi,

Wonder if anyone can help I have a John Piper of Toppesfield, Essex, England, given his Certificate of Freedom in Tasmania in 1846 and apparently moving to Sydney NSW the same year. I have an obituary dated 18th June 1856 from the Sydney Morning Herald from the following day 19/6/1856, so he spent ten years in Sydney. There is a John Piper involved in the Patrick Spurgeon murder of 1953 and that is in character (unfortunately) for John Piper, so can anyone help decide whether the John Pipers are one and the same and if so how did someone convicted apparently of Murder can die three years later at his residence in Pitt Street.

Thanks in Advance 

[Dundee]

Gaol records from 1853 identify him as arriving on the Mangles in 1835.  He was discharged in June 1853.

https://trove.nla.gov.au/newspaper/article/12946823

Debra 

[Piperatthegates]

Hi Dundee,

That is brilliant, our John arrived in Tasmania on the Mangles in 1835 so we definitely have the right man involved in the altercation. Is there any way a UK based person could get a copy of those Gaol records? I am one of those hobbyists that like to have everything provable in my tree. I have come back after a 15 year hiatus from the hobby (Father passed and we worked together on it so it lost it's mojo but I am already hooked again. ) so am unaware of what is available and have yet to re-join any subscription based services.

The Discharge in June was a great spot I had not found that information for a resolution to what happened, all I had found looked as if he would be locked up for years

Sincere thanks, 15 years ago I had John disappearing into Tasmania in 1846 never to be seen again and with your help we now have an end to his story. Of course I will have to try and find out if he ever, married, had children etc but that is the fun isn't it, there are always more questions than answers

 

[maddys52]

The gaol records are on Ancestry.

I had a quick look on the NSW State Archives, but couldn't see the record there. (There are a few John PIPERs).
https://mhnsw.au/collections/state-archives-collection/

I think it would be in this collection, but doesn't appear to be digitised.
https://search.records.nsw.gov.au/primo-explore/fulldisplay?context=L&vid=61SRA&docid=ADLIB_RNSW110001074

[Piperatthegates]

Thanks,

Looks like I will have to restart my Ancestry subscription to further explore John's life. He was first found guilty of Riot and Affray when he was 23 in Essex, UK and just carried on with fresh charges in Tasmania and now Sydney. A bit of a character

[maddys52]

NSW death certificates after March 1856 (John PIPER died 18 June 1856) should contain information about his marital status, spouse's and children's names (if the informant knows this information). You can see what information might be available on Australian certificates here:
https://www.jaunay.com/bdm.html

His death registration:
https://www.nsw.gov.au/family-and-relationships/family-history-search
404/1856  John PIPER aged 45, Sydney - no parent's names included on the Index, which usually implies the informant did not have this knowledge. However, someone placed the death notice in the SMH and knew that he was from Toppesfield.

If you did want to spend the $$ to see the death certificate, a transcription is fine and contains the same information as the original and is cheaper. The NSW BDM website has  a list of transcription agents.
https://www.nsw.gov.au/family-and-relationships/family-history-search/search-guide

[maddys52]

I meant to add also that his burial is on Ancestry. As it says on his death notice, died 18 June, was buried 19 June, aged 45. Address - Pitt St. His occupation - dealer.

Also, on his gaol record - a description:
"5' 10", stout, fresh"

[Piperatthegates]

Thank you maddys52,

I really now have lots to do to follow up on John's life in Australia. He is an offshoot of my main line but he has led such a fascinating life that I can't help but want to find everything I can about him and his life. he ended up serving 11 years for a 7 year sentence in Tasmania because of various things he was caught doing, up to and including stealing bagatelle balls from a pub!

[Piperatthegates]

Hi maddys52

I have signed back up to Ancestry, could you point me in the direction of the Gaol records please. I am really out of practise and Ancestry has changed a lot in the time I have been absent from the hobby/obsession