Confusing relationships - oh my

[ali.]

Hi all,

Looking for a possible marriage between a Frederick Allen and an Amy/Amey - and very confused about the identity of my ancestor!
Long story short, Amy Allen is my third great grandmother, and she was born and raised in Wooburn Green. She has one illegitimate (it seems) son in 1873 - Gilbert John Thomas Allen. I haven't yet ordered his birth cert, but I plan to. In 1880 there appears to be his baptism.

Gilbert John Thomas Allen
Bapt. 29 Feb 1880
Wooburn Green
Father: Frederick Allen (Labourer)
Mother: Amey Allen

Now this is interesting because in 1878, two years before this baptism, Amy marries another local Wooburn man named Thomas Reeves, and despite both being Anglicans, they get married in Mansfield, Nottinghamshire, at a Primitive Methodist Chapel - about 3 hours away. It lists her as a spinster, and her father as Thomas Allen, an engineer. This is most likely their marriage as Tho Reeves' family lived in Mansfield at the time.

But finding this baptism for Gilbert has me questioning if Allen really is her maiden name, or not. If Gilbert's baptism names both mother and father by the surname Allen, I assumed maybe she had married Frederick Allen, left him (but not legally divorced) and kept on his name.

It does look like she may have married outside Wooburn because she was already previously married to Frederick, but this might not be the case at all, as I cannot find any marriage between a Frederick Allen and an Amey/Amy. Obviously it also names her father as Thomas Allen. It's possible she could have been in a relationship with a man named Frederick who was either related to her, or unrelated but shared the same surname. But I have no idea.

I am a little bit confused with this one, I won't lie!

There is confusingly another marriage in 1874 of an Amy Sophia Reeves in Wycombe, which may be her, may not be.

Apr-May-Jun
1874
Wycombe, Buckinghamshire
Amy Sophia Allen m. William Baldwin

She is referred to as Amy Sophia Reeves on her death record as well.

Are William Baldwin and Frederick Allen one and the same? Is it just a coincidence?

If anyone can find a marriage record between an Amy and a Frederick Allen it may help me sort this out. Who the heck is this girl?

Thanks all,
Ali

[Little Nell]

When Gilbert's birth was registered, there was no mother's maiden name listed, so he appears to be illegitimate.

1881 census has Gilbert living with his grandmother, Mary Allen.  In 1891 he is with his mother now Amy Reeves, and her husband Thomas, listed as stepson.  Amy was born in Wooburn, Buckinghamshire in abt 1856.

Looking at the 1861 census a Thomas and Mary Allen can be found in Wooburn with their children (all born Wooburn)
1861: RG9/857/ 76 p 9
Thomas Allen 41 Head
Mary Allen 37 Wife
Henry Allen 16 Son
Ann Elizth Allen 14 Daughter
Selina Allen 11 Daughter
Amy Sapphire Allen 8 Daughter
Emma Allen 6   Daughter
John Allen 4 Son

Sometimes Emma and Amy can become blurred as names, depending on who said it and in what accent. The presence of Amy Sapphire (say that out loud and it could be Amy Sophia) is interesting.  Was it her who married William Baldwin?  Is she your Amy's sister?  There appears to be a birth for Amy Sophia Allen in Wycombe RD in 1852, mms Turner.  Emma Allen birth registered Wycombe district mms Turner in 1854.

Nell

[Ashtone]

BIRTH
ALLEN, AMY  SOPHIA      MMN TURNER     
GRO Reference: 1852  S Quarter in WYCOMBE  Volume 03A  Page 339

Is this Amy and William Baldwin's son?

BIRTH
BALDWIN, ALFRED        MMN ALLEN     
GRO Reference: 1874  S Quarter in WYCOMBE  Volume 03A  Page 472

DEATH
BALDWIN, ALFRED        0 
GRO Reference: 1875  M Quarter in WYCOMBE  Volume 03A  Page 395

[Little Nell]

I'm wondering if Amy Sophia had an illegitimate child in 1873 (Gilbert), married William Baldwin in 1874, perhaps William died (since I cannot find Amy Baldwin born in Wooburn on 1881 census) and then she married Thomas Reeves.  (Or did she just leave William Baldwin?)

Nell

[Ashtone]

Sounds like William Baldwin was out of the picture, considering Amy is listed as "spinster" when she married Thomas Reeves in 1878. Makes sense that she married Reeves elsewhere (Notts).

1891 census - Havelock Place, 5, High Street, Upton with Chalvey, Eton, Buckinghamshire

Amy and Thomas Reeves, plus three children (including Gilbert Allen).

[Ashtone]

1881 census - Greengrocers Shop, George Lane, Wanstead, West Ham

Amy and Thomas RAVES. No children.

1882 birth for daughter Mary Selina Reeves in West Ham, Essex.

[ali.]

Is this Amy and William Baldwin's son?

BIRTH
BALDWIN, ALFRED        MMN ALLEN     
GRO Reference: 1874  S Quarter in WYCOMBE  Volume 03A  Page 472

DEATH
BALDWIN, ALFRED        0 
GRO Reference: 1875  M Quarter in WYCOMBE  Volume 03A  Page 395

Great find, I  hadn't seen Alfred before. This seems likely to be their son. I do wonder what happened to William Baldwin, and I do wonder whether Frederick  Allen just coincidentally had the same surname as Amy. Maybe they were cousins of some kind, not uncommon back then.

I have assumed for some time that she is Amy Sophia Reeves, daughter of Thomas Reeves and Mary Turner, especially with Gilbert living with his grandmother at one time. Just confusing as to who on earth Frederick and William are, how long they were in the picture, etc.

Thanks so much for the help so far. You guys are great.

[Ashtone]

You could always purchase the 1874 Baldwin/Allen marriage cert, in order to confirm his details.
William's occupation may help to locate him in the 1881 census onwards.

Frederick Allen could be fictitious. Someone Amy invented. Who knows.

[ali.]

You could always purchase the 1874 Baldwin/Allen marriage cert, in order to confirm his details.
William's occupation may help to locate him in the 1881 census onwards.

Frederick Allen could be fictitious. Someone Amy invented. Who knows.

Yes looks like I may have to. You're right, she could have just made the name up as to seem married. Possible Gilbert's father could have been William Baldwin,  but perhaps not. The plot thickens!