Author Topic: Would someone lie about who their father was?  (Read 1170 times)

Offline W1ghtg1rl

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Would someone lie about who their father was?
« on: Monday 26 August 24 14:36 BST (UK) »
I have a marriage certificate date 9 Jun 1867 in Southampton for George James, 21, bachelor, father John James, Groom. The marriage was after banns.
Most likely George was born 1845 to Harriet Game (unmarried) daughter of James and Mary James nee Game in Ringwood. She is Game in the first few censuses then becomes James although still unmarried.
So, if this is George, why did he get married in Southampton saying his father was John James a groom?

Online Glen in Tinsel Kni

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Re: Would someone lie about who their father was?
« Reply #1 on: Thursday 29 August 24 01:45 BST (UK) »
Illegitimate children can and will invent a parent on documents and thereby avoid the possible stigma of having unmarried parents but there are literally dozens of other reasons it happens.

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Would someone lie about who their father was?
« Reply #2 on: Thursday 29 August 24 02:13 BST (UK) »
George Game was baptised 7th Jan 1846 Ringwood
Parents names - Harriet Game (from Ringwood). No father named.

George Game birth registration in Oct-Nov-Dec 1845 Ringwood
Page   193   Volume   VIII
Affiliate Line Number   38


Harriet Game was herself illegitimate. Baptised 20 Sept 1820. The daughter of Mary GAME of Ringwood.

Her mother, Mary GAME married James JAMES in Ringwood in 1828. Hence the name change for Harriett, as she eventually took on the surname JAMES, the name of her step-father.

Harriet married in May 1861 under the surname GAME, to Edward Keeping. She does not record any name for her father on the marriage certificate.

———————-

At this time illegitimacy was a a cause of great shame and one would want to hide that fact. Sometimes there might be an element of truth in the name "invented" for a marriage record. For example George's father might have worked as a groom, or his name may have been John.

Given that Harriet's mother Mary married a James JAMES (widower), have you looked for a John James in that side of the family? Maybe a son of James from his first marriage?
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline Neale1961

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Re: Would someone lie about who their father was?
« Reply #3 on: Thursday 29 August 24 02:24 BST (UK) »
Are you aware that Harriett had another illegitimate child before George.
This is her birth registration
GAME, ELLEN       -  (no mother's maiden name indexed)
GRO Reference: 1841  D Quarter in RINGWOOD  Volume 08  Page 195

-------------

I have only looked at this quickly, but it does look as if James James did have a son named John James, from his first marriage to Elizabeth.
John was born in 1813 in Christchurch. He was married in 1834 Ringwood to Martha Wright.
In the 1841 census he is living in Kingston, Ringwood with his wife and 5 yr old son Thomas. He is an agricultural labourer. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M79C-9Q6

John's abode is very close (on previous census page) to his father James who is with Mary and Harriett Game and 1 yr old son named George. (This son, George died age 3 in 1842)
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M79C-97T

In the 1851 census John James is living in Ringwood with his wife and children. He is now a cattle dealer. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:SGPK-CYY


So there is the potential that John James was indeed George’s father, and that George knew who his father was. I see that George himself was a groom / ostler/ horse handler, which is how he describes his father’s occupation.
 If his father’s name is not on George’s birth certificate, then DNA matching would be the only way to be certain.


Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)


Offline Kaybron

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Re: Would someone lie about who their father was?
« Reply #4 on: Thursday 29 August 24 02:31 BST (UK) »
My grandmother was born around 1880 in Kent, England.  She has a father's name on her marriage certificate and I have not been able to find any evidence that he existed, despite many years of research.  A professional researcher hired a number of years ago was also not able to find him.  I have also not been able to find a birth record for my grandmother.  The earliest she appears in records is in the 1901 Census.   

I believe she was illegitimate and possibly given up by her mother.  To save face she made up her father's name and perhaps even changed her name.

Kaybron

Offline antiquesam

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Re: Would someone lie about who their father was?
« Reply #5 on: Thursday 29 August 24 11:54 BST (UK) »
My father and his sister used their uncle's name as father when registering their marriages.
Coomber, Scrimgeour, Shiel, Thiel,

Offline Gadget

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Re: Would someone lie about who their father was?
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 29 August 24 12:20 BST (UK) »
My grandfather's own name (including his middle name)  was entered as his father's name on his marriage cert.

I later discovered that the first two names were correct. It was only the surname that was wrong!
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Offline Old Bristolian

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Re: Would someone lie about who their father was?
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 29 August 24 16:04 BST (UK) »
My great grandfather's father died when he was two years old, so he would not have remembered him. His mother remarried and when he was baptised aged 16 he gave his father's name as Benjamin, an upholsterer. Ten years later when he married he gave George, a cabinet maker. Neither were true.
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Offline W1ghtg1rl

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Re: Would someone lie about who their father was?
« Reply #8 on: Thursday 29 August 24 16:08 BST (UK) »
Thank you all so much, I had found out some of what you have told me, but not all, more digging to do, should keep me busy!