Ethnicity

[JessiT]

I thought dna tests were not reliable for ethnicity, but this story suggests otherwise. Can anyone explain please.

US man given Irish citizenship says a DNA test 'changed his life' - BBC News

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0ve28453gpo

Jess

[aghadowey]

I think the article is a bit misleading as it implied DNA = Irish passport. From what I understand, he took a DNA test which says his ethnicity estimate was 100% Irish then traced his biological parents to Ireland THEN has able to apply for Irish citizenship based on parentage.

[melba_schmelba]

I think the article is a bit misleading as it implied DNA = Irish passport. From what I understand, he took a DNA test which says his ethnicity estimate was 100% Irish then traced his biological parents to Ireland THEN has able to apply for Irish citizenship based on parentage.

It's a moving story, but like you, it seems he employed a 'DNA detective' who fairly quickly found who his parents were, and thus also found all their documentation, and you would think it was on that basis that his Irish citizenship was awarded. Perhaps the idea that was it was awarded on the sole basis of DNA was something the journalist has misunderstood, although I suppose the person themselves might have misunderstood that, if the 'DNA detective' did all the paperwork perhaps?

[Elwyn Soutter]

The late Guy Etchells said:

“Ethnicity results are based on guesses based on the guesses of the ancestry of people living today. They are not an accurate representation of where one's ancestors came from and never, repeat never will be. They are best viewed as a bit of fun rather than anything that will help the family historian.

The important part of the DNA for the family historian is not the ethnicity guess but the data revealed by the chromosomes and any resulting matches, but even then care must be taken, as any gedcom associated with a match may not be accurate”.

https://www.british-genealogy.com/forum/threads/93348-100-British-and-Irish-DNA-now-what

According to the London Times on 16th June 2019, Professor Mark Thomas from University College London said: “Ethnicity is a socially constructed category, not a genetic one. Genetic tests cannot assign an ethnicity unless people start to construct ethnicities on the basis of genetic tests. They can identify genetic clusters in modern populations and compare your genes to the different clusters but there’s very little ancestry inference in that. It doesn’t mean it’s where your genes come from.”

Putting it another way, ethnicity tests are as reliable as a horoscope.

[melba_schmelba]

The late Guy Etchells said:

“Ethnicity results are based on guesses based on the guesses of the ancestry of people living today. They are not an accurate representation of where one's ancestors came from and never, repeat never will be. They are best viewed as a bit of fun rather than anything that will help the family historian.

The important part of the DNA for the family historian is not the ethnicity guess but the data revealed by the chromosomes and any resulting matches, but even then care must be taken, as any gedcom associated with a match may not be accurate”.

https://www.british-genealogy.com/forum/threads/93348-100-British-and-Irish-DNA-now-what

According to the London Times on 16th June 2019, Professor Mark Thomas from University College London said: “Ethnicity is a socially constructed category, not a genetic one. Genetic tests cannot assign an ethnicity unless people start to construct ethnicities on the basis of genetic tests. They can identify genetic clusters in modern populations and compare your genes to the different clusters but there’s very little ancestry inference in that. It doesn’t mean it’s where your genes come from.”

Putting it another way, ethnicity tests are as reliable as a horoscope.

I would agree with Guy and Professor Mark's points...to a point...in that they do indeed tie you to a population according to where a population is now i.e. if a group of people in one island A all moved to one B because of famine/war/expulsion/slavery, the DNA wouldn't show that they originally lived in island A, unless the DNA tester includes archaelogical sampling of burials from island A. But if there is copious historical sources to show that move, it might not be completely erroneous or misleading to call these genes 'island A' genes especially if those people continued to think of themselves as 'island A' people despite all moving somewhere else on mass. I would also say the accuracy of these tests has come leaps and bounds especially for Ancestry and 23andme who have the most data to work on since 2019, and when Guy passed away. There are still many many issues with it, which are down to a big bias in lack of reference samples for places other than the UK and Ireland compared to parts of the world that have very low % of DNA testing and where the tests are not available, as far as Ancestry and 23andme are concerned. 23andme has specifically reached out to people from Africa and Asia offering free tests in order to improve the accuracy of their tests in those regions.

[Andrew Tarr]

Anyone with an Irish-born grandparent can apply for an Irish passport (as do both my wife and me) and I believe any resident of Northern Ireland also.  DNA can only help if it identifies parents and/or grandparents.

[aghadowey]

Anyone with an Irish-born grandparent can apply for an Irish passport (as do both my wife and me) and I believe any resident of Northern Ireland also.  DNA can only help if it identifies parents and/or grandparents.

According to the article the man was able to identify both biological Irish parents through DNA testing. I'm not sure exactly what proof besides his DNA results would have been needed to confirm parentage  for granting citizenship.

[melba_schmelba]

Anyone with an Irish-born grandparent can apply for an Irish passport (as do both my wife and me) and I believe any resident of Northern Ireland also.  DNA can only help if it identifies parents and/or grandparents.

According to the article the man was able to identify both biological Irish parents through DNA testing. I'm not sure exactly what proof besides his DNA results would have been needed to confirm parentage  for granting citizenship.

I think birth and death certificates are required of the parents or grandparents, if they are what you applying on the basis of.

[coombs]

Also no such thing as "Irish DNA" it is a DNA found through centuries of immigration to Ireland from the Normans, Vikings, Celts, Brits, Scottish, French Huguenot (in cork areas) and more. Same for England, Wales and Scotland.