Documentary evidence for the names of the 10 children on the Third Fleet ships

[shume]

Have sent you a PM re passenger lists.

[clontarf]

The convict numbers in Lord Grenville's and Governor Phillip's despatches do not match even if all the deaths reported by Phillip were convicts.

Grenville:
1875 males
175 females

Phillip:
1695 males landed, 194 died giving a total of 1889 males
168 females landed, 4 died giving a total of 172 females

Governor Phillip has 14 too many males and 3 too few females.  Did some of the females listed by Grenville not board the ships?  HMS Gorgon arrived 22 Sep 1791, before Phillip's report, so it is possible he is including convicts from that ship, but the numbers still do not match the claimed 30 on the Gorgon.  I have yet to find a primary source for the Gorgon so cannot confirm if the 30 is correct.

I am currently transcribing a list, downloaded from the National Archives, of convict names scheduled to be transported on the civilian ships. When finished, that list may help to eliminate some possibilities.

[~MERLIN~]

I have a lot of information and documents for the Third Fleet that have been collected over the past 45 years.

My husband has direct bloodline male and female who came free as part of the NSW Corps Regiment on the Third Fleet.

What is your search for the children onboard for?
Are you looking for or trying to prove a connection to your family?

[clontarf]

I am doing this research on behalf of a descendant of John and Martha Love.  There is a lot of unsupported assertion about this family on the internet, so I am trying to return the Love story to an evidentiary basis.  The descendant does not want to misappropriate someone else's story.

A part of the process is to show if there were any children of John and Martha Love on the "Matilda", or any of the other Third Fleet ships.  If there were only 6 free women and 10 children on the entire fleet, and they can be identified, then there is a chance to show if it is feasible John and Martha had any children with them.

This topic is a very specific elimination exercise, so I don't want to be sidetracked by other aspects of the Love story.  I am happy to discuss these other issues if anyone is particularly interested, but not in this topic.

[jimbo50]

I admire your approach, Clontarf. Will you document progress here ?, I'd love to follow it.
Good Luck. Jim

[clontarf]

Progress Report

The following 18th century sources mention either names or breakup of numbers of people arriving on the Third Fleet ships:

1. Convict indentures;

2. TNA list HO 11/1, pp 71-151 - Persons transported to New South Wales in Atlantic, William and Ann, Britannia, Matilda, Salamander, Albermarle, Mary Ann, Barrington, and Active in Jan 1791;

3. TNA list HO 11/1, pp 153-154 - Persons transported to New South Wales in the Gorgon in Feb 1791;

4. Despatch from Lord Grenville to Governor Phillip, 19 Feb 1791 in Historical Records of Australia, 1914, Vol 1, p 225;

5. The Ladies Magazine - article dated 18 Feb 1791, Vol 22, p 163;

6. Despatch from Governor Philip to Lord Grenville, 5 Nov 1791 in Historical Records of Australia, 1914, Vol 1, p 274;

7. John Hunter, "An historical journal of the transactions at Port Jackson …", 1793;

8. Watkin Tench, "A Complete Account of the Settlement at Port Jackson ...", 1793;

9. Mary Ann Parker, "A Voyage Round the World in the Gorgon Man of War …", 1795;

10. David Collins, "An Account of the English Colony in New South Wales …", 1798.

The attached table shows the numbers I have so far extracted from these documents. N.B. This is a work in progress, not a final list.

Preliminary observations:

Governor Phillip's report almost certainly does include the convicts on HMS Gorgon.  Collins and Hunter differ by one in their numbers for "William and Ann", "Matilda", and "Salamander".  Depending on which, if either, are correct in each case, their arrival numbers are a near precise match for Phillip's numbers.

It appears 6 of the female convicts destined for the "Mary Ann" were diverted to the "Albermarle" after Lord Grenville's table was produced.

There is a considerable increase in the numbers of free women and children arriving reported by Collins et al over the numbers reported by Phillip - reason(s) yet to be determined.

In the absence of explicit documentation for the free women and children, Plan B is to look at the female convicts and compare the "sentenced" list from HO 11/1 with muster and census lists from the colony to eliminate as many candidates as possible.  I am in the process of transcribing the HO list.

[mweston]

Hi Clontarf.  I can also give you another name for a Free Woman on the Third Fleet Ships.  Elizabeth Collins arrived on the Admiral Barrington following her husband Edward Collins convict on the Albemarle also arriving in 1791.  Elizabeth gave birth to her daughter Ann Collins born 16 October 1791 on board the Admiral Barrington, baptized: 27 November 1791.  Elizabeth died in Childbirth 1795.  This is just another Free woman and child for you to elminate.  Cheers

[clontarf]

Thank you mweston.   Every confirmed example helps.

This highlights a potential muddying of the waters in the way families of convicts are counted - are they convicts or free?  I suspect some are counted one way and some the other.