Documentary evidence for the names of the 10 children on the Third Fleet ships

[clontarf]

In his report to Lord Grenville on the arrival of the Third Fleet, dated 5 Nov 1791, Governor Phillip says 6 free women and 10 children were landed [Historical Records of Australia - Vol 1, 1914, p.274]. 

Does anyone have documentary evidence for the names of these free passengers on the Third Fleet ships?

I presume the 6 women were the mothers of the 10 children, but 4 females and 1 child died on the passage.    Governor Phillip does not say if the female deaths were convicts or free.

One of the women was Martha Love, wife of Pte John Love on the "Matilda" [1806, 1814, 1882 musters; her burial register].  There is no evidence she had a child with her.

Who were the other 5 families (assuming none of the 10 surviving children had lost their mother on the voyage)?

Amendment:  Just read another post showing convict women did sometimes have their children with them.  So the 10 children may not all have been children of the free women.  Nevertheless, knowing their names will still be useful.

[garstonite]

do you know how old Martha was when she died ?

[clontarf]

The burial register 30 Nov 1822 says she was 74, but we dont know who supplied that information, or their competence to know her correct age.  We do know the burial is probably her because it says "Martha Love (Free) ship Matilda ...."

The age is almost certainly an exaggeration, or a guess.   Her four known children were born 1792, 1793, 1795 and 1799 in or around Sydney.  If she had really been 74 when she died then these children would have been born when she was 44, 45, 47 and 51 respectively.  I do not think that is very credible.

[CassT]

regarding John Love and his wife Martha nee Merriman, there is a lot of information on Find a Grave
which includes
"Martha and their daughter, Elizbeth Amelia, emigrated to the colony in 1891 on the ship "Matilda". They arrived in Port Jackson, Sydney on 1 Aug 1791"

https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/214218330/martha-love

cass

[clontarf]

Thank you Cass T.  I am afraid the Find A Grave site is wrong and not based on any documentary evidence.  There is nothing in Australian records to suggest the stated marriage in 1787 in Berkshire is the Australian couple and several reasons that contradict the possibility.  I have a lot of research pertaining to this marriage, but discussion should be a separate topic.

There is no document anywhere with Martha Love's maiden name (although naming of some of her grandchildren might give some clues).

Her daughter Elizabeth did not have a middle name and was born in the colony, probably on 28 Jan 1792.  I am happy to present the evidence for these statements, but because she was not a passenger on the Third Fleet it should also be done in a separate topic.

[jimbo50]

Quote from Clontarf...
'The age is almost certainly an exaggeration, or a guess.   Her four known children were born 1792, 1793, 1795 and 1799 in or around Sydney.  If she had really been 74 when she died then these children would have been born when she was 44, 45, 47 and 51 respectively.  I do not think that is very credible.'
Not impossible though. There are many births from that age bracket. Also the informant knew which ship and that she was free. Why not her age ? That is if she knew it.

[shume]

The original register (not a transcription) https://www.ancestry.com.au/discoveryui-content/view/231716:6117
of her death entry Liverpool St Luke's church  gives her age as 74, as you state.
So if she had chn in 1792-1799,
you think her age at childbirth is not credible but she could well  have had chn at this age as women do nowadays. Alternatively whoever gave the information thought she was 74, but maybe she was?

[clontarf]

No, it is not biologically impossible for a woman to have a child at 51, but it is relatively rare (among the totality of births).  I still think it unlikely Martha was 74 at death, but it is a moot point not really relevant to this topic.  I accept that she was one of the 6 free women travelling on the Third Fleet ships.

There is no evidence known to me as to Martha's literacy, so I can't really form a judgement on the question of whether she actually knew her age.  As a death record the burial information is at best 2nd hand.  The informant could be one of her children or her husband, but he is an unreliable witness if he is the source of the age transcribed for his burial (I have yet to see the actual register).  I have done some research on the probability of that age being accurate, but that again is another question not really relevant to this topic.

This topic is requesting documentary evidence for the names of the free passengers on the Third Fleet - originally I wanted the 10 children's names but now realise the other 5 women's names would also be useful for my purpose.  This could be in the form of muster/census lists, serendipitous mentions in a church register such as Martha's burial, or diaries/letters of the passengers, etc.

[clontarf]

Current working list

Women
Confirmed:
Martha Love, wife of Pte John Love, on "Matilda" (multiple musters, burial record)
Candidates:
Mary Ann Cummings, on "Queen" (1811 muster, free woman from Isle of Man, but may be a freed convict)
Ann Hortle, on "Salamander"
Ann Jamieson, on "Queen" (1823 burial)
Martha Johns, on "Salamander" (1811 muster)

Children
Candidates:
William Jamieson jnr, on "Queen"
Ann Stoolorn, on "Britannia" (1828 muster)

If the 30 convicts on HMS Gorgon are included in the numbers reported by Governor Phillip then 2 more women (Hannah Laycock and Anna Josepha King) and 4 Laycock children can be added to these lists.