Author Topic: FRANCIS STOVER & CATHERINE FISHER  (Read 1714 times)

Offline Neale1961

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Re: FRANCIS STOVER & CATHERINE FISHER
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 06 July 24 23:08 BST (UK) »
There was a William TINSLEY born abt 1809 in Kentucky.
He moved to Missouri. He married in Dec 1840 (Clark county) Missouri to Susannah Daggs.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline wildcats13

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Re: FRANCIS STOVER & CATHERINE FISHER
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 07 July 24 12:56 BST (UK) »
Hi sorry for the delay in replying as I only just found your response in the Junk Mail. Thanks to everyone for your input. After sifting through all the different options put forward, although we cannot prove it, the one most likely is Catherine Stover/Fisher daughter of Mary Fisher with Francis Stover/Jones. The parents on William's Death Certificate was definitely Catherine Fisher & Frances Stover. The timeline is also a indicator as they were married in 1839, and from everything that I could find, William was born about 1831 as indicated in the following Death Notice.         
Morning Bulletin (Rockhampton, Qld. : 1878 - 1954)  Fri 3 Jan 1908
STOVER.-In loving memory of my dear father, William Stover, who died at Mount Morgan, 3rd January 1907, in his 76th year. Gone, but not forgotten

To me, this means that unless Catherine married Unknown Tinsley and he died early or William was born out of wedlock under his mother's surname. It would have been easy for him to change his name back to Stover once he arrived in Australia. At the moment I have been unable to find him listed on any passenger lists from USA into Australia in the likely time frame.
I haven't found any other family members in the area although there was an article about an Anne Stover being in a Court Case about a domestic dispute, but was in the early 1840's and there was no death notice in the State's Death Notices.
I noticed in one of the reply's that one of the children in the 1850 & 1860 Census was named Narcissa, and William's daughter was named Mary Narcissus Stover. Is that a common name used in that period?.
Thanks for your assistance
Wildcats13






   

Offline Neale1961

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Re: FRANCIS STOVER & CATHERINE FISHER
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 07 July 24 13:05 BST (UK) »
I would say Narcissa is an uncommon name in any period, and is pretty good indication that we may have found the right family.

Once again, I stress the importance of NOT relying on information on the death certificate, which can be quite often flawed. His second marriage certificate is the one to acquire. Because of the later date, it will likely hold more info than the first.

There is no indication that Catherine ever married Tinsley. When she married Francis Jones, she married with the Hover surname.
Milligan - Jardine – Glencross – Dinwoodie - Brown: (Dumfriesshire & Kirkcudbrightshire)
Clark – Faulds – Cuthbertson – Bryson – Wilson: (Ayrshire & Renfrewshire)
Neale – Cater – Kinder - Harrison: (Warwickshire & Queensland)
Roberts - Spry: (Cornwall, Middlesex & Queensland)
Munster: (Schleswig-Holstein & Queensland) and Plate: (Braunschweig, Neubruck & Queensland & New York)

Offline Lisa in California

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Re: FRANCIS STOVER & CATHERINE FISHER
« Reply #12 on: Monday 08 July 24 02:22 BST (UK) »
I have a few comments/questions, in no particular order…

You haven’t found William arriving c1850s.  Are the Australian passenger records fairly complete?  Is it unusual to not find someone?  Different countries involved, but I’ve found very few passenger records for my ancestors who sailed to North America c1850s.  I believe not finding a passenger list is the norm for Canada/North America during that time frame.

Missouri, Kentucky and Tennessee have been mentioned.  While my own ancestors settled in Ontario, Canada, they remained in the same general area for generations.  However, hubby’s paternal side moved from state to state pre-1890, living in Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia and Arkansas so I’m not surprised to find Stover, Fisher and Jones meandering as well.  (The same is true for a few other searches I’ve done.)

Catharine was about 30 years old when she married Francis Jones.  A bit old to be marrying for the first time but not uncommon I suppose.  Perhaps if she did have four children prior to her first marriage, there is a logical reason (such as no local church, cost to get married, etc.).

William F/William T on the 1850 census.  To me, the initial closely resembles other F’s on the page.  The T’s on the page are a bit different, I think.  If it was an F, perhaps his actual name was William Frederick Tinsley, William Francis Tinsley, etc.

If I’m remembering correctly, the four children born prior to the 1839 marriage were not included with their mother in the 1860 census.  Possibly due to their ages, did they refuse to move to Texas with their mother, did some die, etc.  I wonder if they could be found in 1860 additional clues might be uncovered.  (Perhaps details have been found, I didn’t reread all of the comments and I don’t think I found anything.)  ;)

Neale1961 raised a good point about William sailing under a different surname.

Regarding the 1860 census, perhaps Jones was the name that Francis or Catharine gave the enumerator.  But, that doesn’t mean that they actually legally changed their names.  It could have been a mistake by the enumerator or the parent intentionally misled the enumerator.  Or, perhaps all of the children were known as Jones in the town.

Trying to find out more about William Tinsley, born c1809, Kentucky might shed additional leads.  (I briefly looked around but didn’t find anything.)

I also have not run across the name Narcissa before, but most of my research has been in Canada and the UK.

I agree with Neale1961; even official documents can contain errors.

Something to keep in mind, depending upon how strict laws were then, there could be a slight chance that Catharine had been married to a Tinsley and chose not to share that name on the 1839 marriage certificate.

Apologies for the lengthy comments.   :-[
Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada             Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland              (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)


Offline bbart

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Re: FRANCIS STOVER & CATHERINE FISHER
« Reply #13 on: Monday 08 July 24 06:03 BST (UK) »
Perhaps it’s a red herring, but I thought I would mention it anyway…

Catharine Stover
Marriage Date - 25 November 1839
Marriage Place - Pettis, Missouri
Spouse - Francis Jones

1850 District 68, Pettis, Missouri census
Francis Jones, born 1805, Missouri, Farmer
Catherine Jones, born 1809, Kentucky
William F. Jones, born 1830, Missouri
    etc.
Anthony Stover and his household are shown on the same page
Shown directly above the Jones household are Anthony Fisher, age 56, born Virginia and Emily Fisher, age 22, born Kentucky

Added:  Could this be a second marriage for Catharine Stover?  Was William F.
her son, in 1850 using his stepfather’s surname;
her stepson, which means this is a red herring; or
not any connection to you William T. Stover.

If the above is your William, perhaps both his father and stepfather were named Francis, or there was a mistake with the names.

In 1894 William Tinsley Stover put out an "ad" looking for Catherine Stover/Francis Jones; maybe there is a clue or two (no need to subscribe):
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-lexington-intelligencer-william-t-st/150895000/

Offline Lisa in California

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Re: FRANCIS STOVER & CATHERINE FISHER
« Reply #14 on: Monday 08 July 24 06:11 BST (UK) »
Excellent find, bbart!  Thank you.  I wonder if Narcissa was actually Mary? 

…1850 Pettis County, Missouri census
Francis Jones, 45, farmer, Missouri
Catharine, 41, Kentucky
William ?, 20, farmer
Polly, 17
Francis, 14
Jacob, 11
Joseph, 8
Narcissa, 5
Thomas, 1
  All children born in Missouri and had the surname Jones

1860 Freestone, Texas census (Fairfield Post Office)
Catharine Jones, 46, born Kentucky
Joseph, 17, Labourer, Missouri
Narcissa, 15, Missouri
Thomas, 12, Missouri
John, 7, Missouri

   All children had the surname Jones…
Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada             Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland              (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)

Offline bbart

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Re: FRANCIS STOVER & CATHERINE FISHER
« Reply #15 on: Monday 08 July 24 06:15 BST (UK) »
One more Lisa.... it's less helpful as it is vague "who" the father is.

This is 4 years earlier than the last clip:
https://www.newspapers.com/article/the-central-queensland-herald-francis-pe/150895444/

Offline Lisa in California

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Re: FRANCIS STOVER & CATHERINE FISHER
« Reply #16 on: Monday 08 July 24 06:21 BST (UK) »
Thank you, bbart!  Wildcats13 should be very happy with your findings.

I’ll have a look around San Francisco, c1850s. 

Added: if William was the one who went to San Francisco c1850, I can envision him sailing to Australia from California (rather than leaving Missouri or Texas to sail).
Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada             Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland              (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)

Offline Lisa in California

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Re: FRANCIS STOVER & CATHERINE FISHER
« Reply #17 on: Monday 08 July 24 06:31 BST (UK) »
Recorded as W S Stover on Anc*try…

1852 Placer County, California Census
W T(?) Stover(?), age 23, white, Miner(?), born Missouri, last residence Missouri

A possibility?

Perhaps he sailed to Australia in search of work (if that was your man).


Family calling…will be back later.


Added: there were a few other Missouri births on that image; possibly a group went to California?
Ellison: Co. Wicklow/Canada       Fowley: Sligo/Canada       Furnival: Lancashire/Canada       Ibbotson: Sheffield/Canada       Lee/DeJongh: Lancashire & Cheshire       Mumford: Essex/Canada       Ovens: Ireland/Canada       Sarge: Yorkshire/Canada             Stuart: Sligo/Canada       Sullivan: Co. Clare/Canada      Vaus: Sussex/Surrey      Wakefield: Tuam or Ballinasloe, Ireland              (Surname: Originated/Place Last Lived)  (Canadians lived in Ontario)