Samuel England baptism question

[Stanwix England]

Hi Everyone,

I’m having some issues with a Samuel England. I believe he was born around 1828 in Overstrand, Norfolk

I believed that his father was John Harrison England and that his mother was Alice Strangleman.

I have him on the 1841 census, in Overstrand, Norfolk.

Registration district   Erpingham
Sub-registration district   Cromer
Neighbors   View others on page
Piece   760
Book   1
Folio   5
Page number   5

Everything looks OK in terms of him being one of their children. There is a Robert England living with them, aged 25. I think he’s too old to belong to this couple and is likely a brother or cousin of John Harrison.

But what is bothering me is that I can’t find a baptism record for Samuel, when I can for their other children.

His oldest sister Rose Anna England, was baptised in Northrepps on January 5th 1824, where John Harrison and Alice got married.

The next eldest child is Margaret, who was baptised in Overstrand, 25th September 1826.

Then I can’t find anything for Samuel.

Then the next child, Mary Anne, is baptised in Overstrand on the 9th December 1830.

So I can’t understand why Samuel would be missing.

I’ve looked through both the records for Overstrand and Northrepps, in case they went back there for some reason, and nothing.

It just seems odd to me. If they’d given up baptising kids I could understand it.

[amondg]

Eldest child of John England and Alice is Matthew bap 14 March 1818 at North Repps
Born 11 March 1818

Ref NFHS transcription

ADDED Image on ancestry
Image says March Matthew England as he was baptised in March difficult to know if the month was placed in the wrong column

[heywood]

“There is a Robert England living with them, aged 25. I think he’s too old to belong to this couple and is likely a brother or cousin of John Harrison.”

Probably the child transcribed as ‘Tobon Sagland’ baptised January 1822, Sideland.

[amondg]

John England bap 6 February 1820 son of John and Alice nee Strangleman

Robert England bap 24 January 1822 at Sidestrand son of John and Alice.

So John and Alice married in North Repps, had Matthew 1818, moved to Sidestrand, had John 1820 and Robert 1822, moved to Overstrand, had Margaret 1825, (Samuel circa 1827) Mary Ann 1830, Elizabeth 1832, Eliza 1835, Henry 1837.

Samuel on the 1841 census age is rounded to 10 the same as Mary, as he is listed before her it's likely is is older .

1861 Samuel is in the Navy age 32 born Overstrand. Rank Mate aboard "The Maid of Whitby" 
1871 in Whitby Yorkshire born Cromer Norfolk
1881 in Whitby born Overstrand Norfolk

[Ili1133]

amondg mentions Samuel lived in Whitby. How about this from the FindMyPast Index?

Samuel England b1828, bapt 1875, Whitby St Hilda (Record set: English Roman Catholic Parish Baptisms)

Maybe someone with a current sub could expand on this.

[BumbleB]

Son of Joannis and Aliciae England.  Born 29 April 1828, baptised 19 February 1875 - St Hilda, Whitby.

[LizzieL]

Son of Joannis and Aliciae England.  Born 29 April 1828, baptised 19 February 1875 - St Hilda, Whitby.

Good, this confirms he was son of John and Alice. As 1841 doesn't give relationships there was an outside chance he had a different relationship to them. An ancestor of my OH was living with his uncle and aunt in 1841, because his parents had died. Numerous tree owners on Ancestry assumed the boy was the son of the uncle and aunt, because they couldn't be bothered to check his baptism record or his marriage record.

[Stanwix England]

Thank you so much to everyone who has helped with this.

It’s all very interesting. I do wonder why his baptism was forgotten until he was an adult, unlike all his siblings.

One of his elder sisters seems to have been baptised on the day she was born. It’s one of those rarer records where date of birth is added as well as baptism date. The other children whose birthdates are noted on the same page, have a gap between birth and baptism. So I’d assumed it was one of those emergency cases where there was some concern the baby might not survive.

I wonder if something similar happened to Samuel, but there was some concern that it never happened or it was recorded properly.

It’s all very interesting, thank you.

[LizzieL]

It’s all very interesting. I do wonder why his baptism was forgotten until he was an adult, unlike all his siblings.

The adult baptism looks like it was in a Roman Catholic Church, so irrespective of whether or not he was baptised as an infant, it looks like he chose to convert to Roman Catholicism when in his forties.