Thomas Moffat, born 1786/1787

[hostile17]

Hi Everyone,

I'm trying to find a birth record for Thomas Moffat who died aged 66 on 4th June 1852 and was buried at St Cuthbert's, Edinburgh on the 8th June 1852. The funeral procession left from 312 Fisher's Close, Lawn Market, Edinburgh. the death record lists his profession as printer.

Tracing back found a 1851 census record of Thomas living at 41 India Place, St Stephen's, Edinburgh. The head of the household was his son James C Moffat. Thomas's profession is former printer and it says he was born in 1787 in Blackford, Perthshire.

A 1841 census record has Thomas living at 7 James Court, Edinburgh with Robert Pringle and his wife Amelia Pringle (could this be Thomas's daughter), also in the household are James Moffat aged 20 and Elizabeth Moffat aged 15. Thomas's birth is recorded as being in 1786 in Midlothian. Again he is a printer.

I believe Thomas Moffat married Helen Ewan on 19th Nov 1808 in Larbert, Sterlingshire

On Ancestry many people have the parents of Thomas as Peter Moffat and his wife Helen Eleanor (Nelly) Mack and Thomas born 1773 in Lauder, Berwick.

This birth and parents seem wrong when a quick look on Scotland's people gives 5 births for Thomas Moffat in 1786/1787, these being in Inveresk & Musselburgh, Borthwick, Ladykirk, Eccles and Newlands.

These all seem a better match to me, but which one is he ? I have no idea.

Can anyone suggest any other documents i might search for that could provide a link to his birth ?

Thanks
Sue

[Forfarian]

If he was 66 in 1852 when he died, and his age is accurate, he was born in 1785/1786.

He was listed as 55 in the 1841 census. Adults' ages were supposed to be rounded down to the nearest 5 years, so, is accurate, it means that he was born between 1781 and 1786.

Assuming that he is the one who is transcribed as James Moffat in 1851, he was 64, which implies that he was born in 1786/1787.

So some time between 1783 and 1788 seems like a reasonable guess. Either Midlothian or (more likely) Perthshire. Why would he dream up a spurious birthplace several counties away if he was really born in Midlothian?

I don't think that the Thomas Moffat who married Helen Ewan in Larbert in 1808 is your one. They had nine children between 1809 and 1828, all baptised in Larbert. Helen was in Larbert in 1841, but it looks as if Thomas had died.

Amelia Moffat or Pringle died in Edinburgh in 1857 aged 44, mother's maiden surname Syme. The death certificate will tell you her father's occupation and her mother's given name.

There are two baptisms of children to Thomas Moffat and Catherine Sim/Syme
- Christian, 24 June 1811 in Edinburgh
- Elizabeth, 2 April 1823 in Edinburgh
It might be worth taking a look at these baptisms to see if their father was a printer?

Elizabeth would have been 18 on the day of the 1841 census, and should have been recorded as 15 because of the rounding down - and there is indeed a 15-year-old Elizabeth in the 1841 census in the Pringle household.

Christian Moffat or Smeaton died in Dollar in 1874, aged 63, mother's maiden name Sim. Christian Moffat married James Smeaton in Clackmannan in 1846. This could be Thomas and Catherine's daughter - worth a look?

There are also James, 33 in 1851; and Jane, 20; and Catherine, 33 in the 1851 census in the Pringle household.

Thomas Moffat and Katharine Sime were married in Edinburgh in 1810. The marriage record may possibly say what Thomas occupation was, and it just might name C/Katha/erine's father.

The bad news is that the Blackford parish register is 'defective' at exactly the time you are looking at. See screenshot. What this means is that it is very likely that the record you are looking for does not exist.

Ignore what Ancestry says. The 1773 one is a full decade too old and moreover born in the wrong part of the country. The fact that 'several people' say so only means that several people have blindly copied an error made by whoever first posted it. Never trust online trees on any web site, because you have no way of knowing whether they are well researched or a load of rubbish.
 

[hostile17]

That's interesting

I know that my 3x great grandfather was William Moffat who was baptised on 5th September 1809 in Larbert, Stirlingshire. His parents were Thomas Moffat and Helen Ewing on his baptism record.

The marriage of Thomas Moffat and Helen Ewen in 1808 in Larbert is the right parents. I cant find a Thomas Moffat that died between 1828 (the year before his last child was born) and 1841 when he doesn't appear on the census.

The birthplace discrepancy could be down to wrong information given by the person who answered the door when the census official knocked.

It could be that the Pringles aren't related to Thomas Moffat but just live in the same house, i'm just trying to get my head around the possibles.

[Forfarian]

If you have proof that your Thomas is the one who married Helen Ewan, then he isn't the one who is in the census in Edinburgh with the Pringles.

Amelia Moffat or Pringle's death index says her mother's maiden surname was Syme, not Ewan.

Helen Ewan/Ewing's children were born between 1809 and 1828.
Catherine Sim/Syme's recorded children were born in 1811 and 1823 (there were others whose baptism records have not survived).

Therefore the two families overlap.

Therefore these are two different Thomas Moffats.

[trish1120]

If James C Moffatts Daug married as Catharine Syme Moffatt.

F/S has the Marriage of Amelia 8 Dec 1834 to Robert Pringle, Her Father Thomas Moffatt

I agree 2 different families

[hostile17]

thanks to both of you, looks like I'm back to square 1 with Thomas. The only thing I know for sure is that he married Helen Ewen/Ewing in 1808 in Larbert.

If he did die before 1841 as the census suggests I can't find a death record that fits.

A quick look at the births for Thomas Moffat between 1770 and 1790 gives 17 possibilities.

[Forfarian]

The Larbert Kirk Session minutes include a list of the male heads of families in full communion with the Church at the end of 1834. (Evidently widows don't count in the grand scheme of things.)

I've looked through it and I don't see Thomas Moffat listed. You might like to check it for yourself at www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk

So either he had died, or he wasn't 'in full communion with the Church'. Given that he seems to have been quite diligent in getting his children baptised and registered, I imagine it's the former, i.e. he had died by the end of 1834.

[Forfarian]

Another but probably not very helpful clue is that of the 13 Moffat baptisms in Larbert, 9 are the children of Thomas M and Helen Ewing, and 3 are the children of William M and Margaret Hart, who appear to be Thomas' grandchildren.

Only one is apparently unconnected with Thomas M; Richard M, baptised 1799, son of Robert M and Ann Gardner.

So the surname Moffat does not seem to have a long association with Larbert. But could Robert M be a relative of Thomas M?

This couple had 5 recorded children, the first three in Ormiston, then one in Larbert and one in Bothkennar. Ormiston is in East Lothian, and there are records of Moffats there from the early 17th century.

Speculation Could Thomas and Robert have come to Larbert to work at the Carron Iron Company? It might be worth a look at the Carron Company's staff records, which are in the National Records of Scotland (or were - their catalogue is currently offline).

What do the baptisms of Thomas' children say about his occupation, if anything? Are witnesses named, and if so do they include Robert M and/or Ann Gardner and/or any of their children?

[hostile17]

I cant find a death for Thomas after 1828 (when he needed to be alive for his last child to be born) and 1834 in Scotland.

However there is a record for Thomas Moffat in the Chelsea Hospital, register of pensioners on 14th October 1835. He was aged 39, born 1796 in Berwick (maybe North Berwick, East Lothian). He served 1 year underage then 2 years as Quarter Master Sergeant in the royal horse artillery. When examined he had an injury to his right shoulder and Chronic Rheumatism. To view the registration document Ancestry is sending me to Fold 3 which I don't have access to.

Also a record in WO42 File for the death of Captain Thomas William Moffat, who was in the 7th garrison Battalion and died on 20th November 1835