Illegitimate

[gilbertlouise]

Hi
Am wondering if someone is able to help please?

My Great Granddad, Charles Bell Baker has no Fathers info on his birth certificate. I have got lots of DNA connections come up on my ancestry thrulines and matches, through his Father's line, but how do I show a document evidence for the connection?

I have found newspaper clippings telling of Charles' Mother, Maude Baker of Chapel Street, Tiverton, Devon, taking Charles' Dad to court for maintenance in 1896. It says that the Father is a Charles Bell from Kingston, He was a labourer and worked for Messers Starkey Knight & co in Tiverton on a contract.

I have followed my line with DNA but the documents on Charles Bell, with his family, say that he was a Well Borer. Charles of Kingston was married to an Annie Stemp. They married in 1890 in Kent. This Charles died in 1898. How can I know for certain that the Charles in Devon is the same Charles in Kingston? Isn't it correct that the thru lines is only as accurate as the info that people are putting on their trees? Can I be sure that the DNA matches/thrulines are actually related to me?

There is a Charles William Bell of Kingston too. So I want to make sure that I have got the right Charles Bell.

I am not sure how to locate work records for Messrs Starkey Knight & co to prove a document connection?

Has anyone else been able to prove illegitimate lines with DNA please? How do you document the connection?

Thank you so much

Gill

[Neale1961]

Regarding the reputed father - Charles Bell. When and where was he born?
Your post does not give dates or places of birth for any of the people concerned.

A well borer could also be considered a labourer. If he was on "contract", it was not permanent work, and he would have gone on to other work after that.

Were Starkey Knight & co in Tiverton, brewers?

[gilbertlouise]

Thankyou.

The Newspaper clipping just says his name is Charles Bell and that he is a labourer of Kingston. I have done a little searching on the internet and it seems messers Starkey are brewers.

The Charles Bell I have been able to find through Ancestry DNA is Charles Ernest Bell, born 1869 Kingston upon Thames according to census. He is living with Annie Stemp's family in the 1891 census. He was apparently buried aug 1898 at all saints kingston upon thames. In 1881 he is at el crescent kingston with his siblings and dad John Chinnery Bell who was a coachman.

Charles' Mum is Zillah Barnes.

Im sorry, I hadn't thought about putting dates etc.

[Biggles50]

DNA matches can and do give clues but finding the paper trail is not always possible, there is often to many ifs and buts to be sure.

What I suggest is build a standalone tree, include in the tree the main suspect together with a few DNA Matches who are also in the tree. 

Then create a Gedcom file and upload it to DNA Painter’s WATO tool, complete the question and assign the actual cM values to the matches in the tree and run the tool.

You are then presented with probabilities which have numerical values.

The results will give you various working hypothesis options to follow up.

Good luck

BTW
There are tutorials available on using WATO that you may like to watch or read first

[gilbertlouise]

Thank you !...I have actually never heard of WATO... ?

[Biggles50]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6LxMH0zS54

A tutorial for you.

I suggest you also Subscribe and Bookmark the Genetic Genealogist’s channel on Youtube as these are the goto Guru’s in Genetics and they also produce the tutorials on Gedmatch.

[Ashtone]

One of the 1896 newspaper reports mentions Charles Bell had left for South Africa. If this is true, there may be an 1896 SA passenger record for him? (Or 1895, if he split for SA after the liaison).

Probably not the same man, but there's an 1888 marriage for a Charles William Bell in South Africa.

Crediton Gazette
15 August 1896

[rsel]

Hi Gill,
    You need to approach this as 2 separate investigations i think, which hopefully will join up to give you the answer you are looking for.
    First on the DNA side, just to clarify that will not identify a named person, but if you follow Biggles50 advice you can confirm the generation where your share the match. Hopefully this will be one of your great granddads ancestors.
    The second part will then be to validate/generate the trees for the DNA matches, which is where you can then start getting the names from. Hopefully your matches have the paperwork that can confirm that you get the correct Charles Bell (i.e. double checking names, places, occupations where you can).  This can be hardwork, as i found out from a relative with a common name (three people with the same name born in the same year in the same area of south london), it was only after validating via DNA that i found i had picked the wrong one even though a lot of the details matched up.

Richard

[gilbertlouise]

Thank you everyone so much. I hadn't seen the clipping you have here before.

On ancestry there are quite a few matches. But some of them have different info on Charles Bell. My records say he died in Elm crescent, Kingston 1898 but they say that he had another child and died years later.

Its funny that this article says he went to south Africa, if its him, because it looks life the family a bit further back were involved in the East India company.
Im not sure I can manage all the number workings with the DNA thing, thankyou though.

Thankyou for your advice and yes I think your right about checking the info with matches.

I appreciate all your help.

Could you please tell me what the rest of the newspaper clipping says?

Thankyou.

Gill