Revisiting brickwalls and "backburners".

[BushInn1746]

Baptisms not checked of James Box and Barbara, but on Anc and I think it mentioned he was a Weaver, possibly why I ruled out the 1780 James Box, Will.

St Brides, Fleet Street, London, England, 1st August 1819
James Corney married Jane Box, Spinster
In the Presence of:-
Daniel OKeefe
JAMES SMITH

27th May 1764 (Banns also online too)
St Bride, Fleet Street, City of London
"Box & Smith" [margin]
James Box Batch'r and Barbara Smith, Spins'r both of this Parish were Married in this church by Banns
In the Presence of Jane Davis ; Edward James
 ----------
General Information on St Bride
This page on Family Search has a boundary of St Bride and surrounding Parishes apparently c.1589, bit too early.
https://www.familysearch.org/en/wiki/St_Bride_Fleet_Street,_London_Genealogy

It mentions Farringdon without.

"St Bride Fleet Street belonged to Farringdon Ward Without and Castle Baynard Ward.

Also known as St Bridget Parish."

Description changed in 1848.
 ----------
Back to 1819 - 1820 on Anc

All London, England, Land Tax Records, 1692-1932

From a general James Smith search, one return was:-

James Smith
1820
Farringdon Without, City of London

Image of p.1 says this Land Tax book is:-
London, An Assessment made upon the several Inhabitants and Premises in the Precinct of St Andrew in the Ward of Farringdon Without.

James Smith £1. [on page 5]

I didn't check for any other James Smith, there are others for 1820 in other books, indexed by Anc under Farringdon Without (bit misleading), but another James Smith, 1820 was in different book title?

Seems the Ward covered more than one Parish?

[coombs]

It is looking likely Andrew Carney (c1788-1845) was a relative of James Carney/Corney who wed Jane Box in 1819 at St Bride Fleet Street. I am off out soon but will be back later to have another look. I may have to compile a Carney family tree and label it as "Hypothetical relatives) as I have done this with a few other lines, and take notes of what you and I have found out about them.

My nan said she had some Irish blood on her Oxford born mother's side of the family, I have not found any yet but that mother of my gran was the great granddaughter of James Smith who knew Andrew Carney.

That other James Smith who witnesses the Carney/Box wedding may have been his father, or a cousin as we said.

[coombs]

I just found a James Carney aged 57 in the 1851 census, born c1794 in St Margaret Westminster, living at 38 Fitton Street, St John The Evangelist, Westminster. He is said to be a carman, so that tallies with him being a coachman in the 1820s on his children's baptisms. Jane Carney his wife was aged 58 and born Suffolk, Ipswich.

This could well be the same James Carney who wed Jane Box in 1819.

[coombs]

I think I found 2 children of James Carney and Joanna nee Box at St George Cathedral, Southwark in RC baptisms.

1825 Joanna Carney, daughter of James and Joanna (Nee Box) godparents James Boyle and Martina Maria Diprode.
1829 David Carney, son of James and Joanna (Nee Box) godparents Michael Carney and Martina Helena Coglan.

Seems the James Carney who wed Jane Box in 1819 had a relative called Michael.

[BushInn1746]

By 1842 (at St Giles in the Fields) Andrew Carney, Widower, Gold Size Maker, signature, has got shaky, possibly due to his age. Father James Carney, Cutter. Present as witnesses:- Mary Ann Carney ; Thos Bayless.

The Mary Ann Carney, witness signature 1842, Mary Ann (part) is similar to Mary Ann Arle in 1832, where you get Jane Corn*y as one witness, [Jane Corney].

Added
1826
Looks like the first marriage of Andrew Carney, might also be St Bride, City of London. Searching London, England.
[Indexed as St Bride, Fleet Street, London]

Added
On another thread you felt there might be a link to the Smith surname, through Hannah Hawkes, is that still a line of enquiry?

(Reply #54 of this thread has Andrew Carney & Hannah Hawkes, witness, sample signatures).

But as said, the 1st witness to James Smith's marriage:- Hannah Hawkes had an aunty who wed a Joseph Smith in Marsh Gibbon, Bucks. Food for thought but nothing concrete. Hannah may have been a friend of the bride or groom and her aunt wed a Smith, and Smith is a popular name.

[coombs]

Hannah Hawkes was born in 1800 in Byfield, Northamptonshire I think, but her father was Jonas Hawkes born 1764 in Marsh Gibbon, Buckinghamshire to Thomas and Eliz Hawkes. Now, Jonas had a sister Elizabeth Hawkes born 1767, and she married in November 1786 in Marsh Gibbon to Joseph Smith. Not sure if that is anything to go on, or coincidence due to the common surname. The original marriage in 1786 will give the 2 witnesses but I have not been able to find the original or a full transcript of the yet.

[BushInn1746]

I think I found 2 children of James Carney and Joanna nee Box at St George Cathedral, Southwark in RC baptisms.

1825 Joanna Carney, daughter of James and Joanna (Nee Box) godparents James Boyle and Martina Maria Diprode.
1829 David Carney, son of James and Joanna (Nee Box) godparents Michael Carney and Martina Helena Coglan.

Seems the James Carney who wed Jane Box in 1819 had a relative called Michael.

Southwark was only separated by the River Thames from St Bride.

Never used this site but looks interesting?
"Layers of London is a map-based history website developed by the Institute of Historical Research."
https://www.layersoflondon.org/

[BushInn1746]

I think I found 2 children of James Carney and Joanna nee Box at St George Cathedral, Southwark in RC baptisms.

1825 Joanna Carney, daughter of James and Joanna (Nee Box) godparents James Boyle and Martina Maria Diprode.
1829 David Carney, son of James and Joanna (Nee Box) godparents Michael Carney and Martina Helena Coglan.

Seems the James Carney who wed Jane Box in 1819 had a relative called Michael.

From p.6
Reply # 53

Two earliest children? Didn't check for anymore.

1819, 27th Oct
Baptisms in the City of London Lying in Hospital, Middlesex
Child - James Corney
Parents - James and Jane Corney,
Abode - Queens Arms Cot, Blackfriars Road,
Quality, Trade, or Profession - Porter,
 ----------
Baptisms 1822
St John the Evangelist, Westminster, Middlesex.
Oct 13
Born May 25 1821

Child - William Son of
Parents - James and Jane Corney,
Abode - Rochester Row,
Quality, Trade, or Profession - Coachman

The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names by E. G. Withycombe, Reprinted Jan. 1946

Says:-
Jane (f.): the usual modern form of Joan(na) (see JOAN). It comes from OFr Jehane, and is not found much before the 16th C., Joan being the more usual medieval form of the name in England. ...

f.      feminine
OFr  Old French

So it does look like the Catholic Register has used the older historic form of the forename Jane.

[coombs]

I think I found 2 children of James Carney and Joanna nee Box at St George Cathedral, Southwark in RC baptisms.

1825 Joanna Carney, daughter of James and Joanna (Nee Box) godparents James Boyle and Martina Maria Diprode.
1829 David Carney, son of James and Joanna (Nee Box) godparents Michael Carney and Martina Helena Coglan.

Seems the James Carney who wed Jane Box in 1819 had a relative called Michael.

From p.6
Reply # 53

Two earliest children? Didn't check for anymore.

1819, 27th Oct
Baptisms in the City of London Lying in Hospital, Middlesex
Child - James Corney
Parents - James and Jane Corney,
Abode - Queens Arms Cot, Blackfriars Road,
Quality, Trade, or Profession - Porter,
 ----------
Baptisms 1822
St John the Evangelist, Westminster, Middlesex.
Oct 13
Born May 25 1821

Child - William Son of
Parents - James and Jane Corney,
Abode - Rochester Row,
Quality, Trade, or Profession - Coachman

The Oxford Dictionary of English Christian Names by E. G. Withycombe, Reprinted Jan. 1946

Says:-
Jane (f.): the usual modern form of Joan(na) (see JOAN). It comes from OFr Jehane, and is not found much before the 16th C., Joan being the more usual medieval form of the name in England. ...

f.      feminine
OFr  Old French

So it does look like the Catholic Register has used the older historic form of the forename Jane.

I also just found a John Carney wed Jane Arle in 28 Feb 1825 in St Bride Fleet Street. Witnesses Thomas Richards and Mary Ann Arle.

Makes me wonder if John Carney was a relative of James Carney who wed Mary Ann Arle in January 1832.