Help untangling my Ruddocks please

[Purple Badger]

Evening All,

I have revisiting my family tree and the same headache that got the better of me last time is frustrating me all over again.

I have a Thomas Ruddock born in Dickleburgh/Langmere c1766

There is a marriage for Thomas Ruddock to Mary Allen in 1791 in Dickleburgh. Mary Allen is noted as being from Syleham/Sileham in Suffolk a couple of miles away.

I have trawled the baptism records for Dickleburgh and they show the following:

Children of Thomas Ruddock and Mary Allen
Mary Ruddock b1795

Children of Thomas Ruddock and Mary Ellis
Elizabeth Ruddock b June 1799
Maria Ruddock B June 1799 (same day as her sister)
Thomas Ruddock 1802.

Children of Thomas Ruddock and his wife Mary (maiden name not specified)
Mary Ruddock b oct 1796
Sarah Ruddock b 1806
Jemima Ruddock b1808

I can not find a marriage for Thomas Ruddock to Mary Ellis.

I can not find a death record for Mary Allen to allow for Mary Ellis to be a second marriage.

I am trying to determine if
a) There are two Thomas Ruddocks in Dickleburgh who are each married to a Mary which would be a huge frustrating coincidence.
b) There is some documentation to prove that Thomas had two wives both called Mary (but without finding a death record for the first wife or marriage for the second, this is proving elusive).
c) There is some indication that Mary Ellis and Mary Allen are actually the same person.

Can anyone held me untangle this situation please? Thanks!

[amondg]

NFHS transcriptions has:-

John bap. 30 July 1792 son of Thomas Ruddock and Mary nee Allen*

Mary bap 14 June 1795 dau. of Thomas Rudduck and Mary Allen

Mary bap. 25 December 1796 of Thomas Rudduck and Mary (no maiden name listed)

All at Dickleburgh

FreeReg has John Rudduck born 29 July 1792 bap 30 July 1792 m Mary Rudduck born 23 May 1795, bap 14 June 1795,  Mary Ruddock bap 25 December 1796

ADDED
You are missing Fanny born 7 Feb 1812 bap. 19 April 1812 of Thomas Ruddock and Mary.

[amondg]

Banns were called in both villages, 18 and 25 September, 2 October 1791 at  Dickleburgh
The marriage was in Sileham Suffolk on 12 October 1791

Ref: Phillmore Parish Marriage Registers

[amondg]

Have you checked Sarah Seaman 88 widow born Wingfield Suffolk it's not far from Syleham.

Mary Ruddock age 86 widow of Ag Lab. is living with her 1851 census.  (she does say born Mulbarton)

are they related??

[Pejic]

Is your information from source documnts or transcriptions? It doesn't seem too much of a stretch for a poorly written Allen to be misread/transcribed as Ellis

[ciderdrinker]

Hi
Christening at Mulbarton
Mary Allen 6.8.1769 d of Robert and Mary Allen .
No sign of an Ellis
Only other possible children I can see for a Robert and Mary Allen
John and Mary twins 16.7.1768 Saxlingham Nethergate

Mary Allens parish in Suffolk -Sileham doesn't seem to have baptisms and burials on line.
I've checked the images of Dickleborough and its l Ellis.

So she could have been a widow but if so strange she married as Mary Allen
Not 2 burials for Thomas and Mary Ruddock so looks like one couple.


Ciderdrinker

[Purple Badger]

Hi Everybody,

Thank you for all your replies. Apologies it has taken me so long to respond, something came up in IRL that had to take priority.

 @amondg that you for your information, I had indeed forgotten Fanny, also I am not sure I had John so thank you for that. Sarah Seaman was another avenue of investigation. There was a Sarah Brown who married Seaman in Dickleburgh around the same time as Thomas and Mary, but Brown is not a familiar name for my tree, so no easy win there.

@Pejic I really wish it was a transcription error, it would solve alot but unfortunately I don't believe as I have gone through the original records. I have (hopefully) attached images of the two names to this post.

@ciderdrinker thanks for the info on the Allen family. The parents look like a good fit.


Here is where I am at:

Thomas Ruddock Marries Mary Allen in Syleham (Banns read at Dickleburgh) 1791. This states Batchelor and Spinster so suggests this is the first marriage.

Their Son John Ruddock is baptised 1792 Dickleburgh - I have checked the parish register at it says mother Mary Allen
Daughter Mary Born 1796 again record states Mary Allen.

Then here's where it gets interesting , c1797 Maria Ruddock is born to Thomas Ruddock and Mary Ellis. baptism 1799 Dickleburgh the same day as her sister Elizabeth.

There is also Thomas Ruddock in 1802 and Fanny 1812 both specifically state mother is Mary Ellis.

There are also a couple of records that don't specify a maiden name for Mary.
Mary Ruddock b oct 1796
Sarah Ruddock b 1806
Jemima Ruddock b1808

I still can not find a death for Mary Allen or a marriage cert for Mary Ellis.

So working through options...

I guess it is possible that both death and 2nd marriage cert were lost, but not sure how likely this is as Dickleburgh records have other entries for this time period.

There is no death and re-marriage as it might be possible that Mary Allen ran off and Thomas couldn't remarry but moved Mary Ellis in and had a family with her. Although I am surprised the parish records don't say anything as they are other records  where the children are illegitimate but the father is listed and there is a note. Such a tiny village everyone would have know what was going on surely?

There is no death and re-marriage as Mary Allen and Mary Ellis is the same person and for unknown reasons she decided to start using a different maiden name. Why would she do this? Again small village, same person taking down the records, surely they would have know this was a different.

There are records and I just haven't found them!!!!

Does anyone know if Langmere have its own records for this time period?

Thank you for all your help and ideas with this one. 

[Purple Badger]

Sorry having to post attachments separately.

This shows Mary Allen, the previous one shows Mary Ellis.

[bugbear]

Illegitimate children sometime change their surname from their mother's to their father's if their parents marry subsequent to their birth.

I've even had this cross another generational boundary, when the Illegitimate child had children of her own.