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[GilchristHolmes]

Sarah’s occupation is a Tobacco Spinner.
Her father John’s occupation is Cotton Mill Laborer. And her mother Elizabeth’s occupation is not listed.

[Neale1961]

This looks promising for your Sarah (age 15) in 1881 census with mother Elizabeth Holms (widow)

https://www.scotlandspeople.gov.uk/image-viewer/census_lds/census_lds-d9affdff-7a71-4b5f-89ad-206db5171456?search_token=46569021660dcddad6fec



Please - On the marriage certificate does it say if either parent is deceased?

[Neale1961]

Oh gosh – this is  a complicated / interesting family. Hope you understand and can follow my notes below.

From the 1881 census posted above --------

Elizabeth (Boyland) Holms was born abt 1831 in Ireland - Lough Frainsbell (think the place name has been mis-transcribed. Perhaps ask on the Ireland board of RootsChat)

Your Sarah has an older ½ sister named Mary Ann McGinlay

Birth for Mary Ann Thomson or Boylan - 29 March 1858 Dundee
Mother Betsy Boylan; Father Edward Thomson. ( I suspect she was illegitimate too)
   
Mary Ann Thomson married Hugh McGinlay in 1877 Blythswood
            They had a Daughter Alice born 1881 (mother Mary Ann nee Thomson)
             (I didn't spend time on husband Hugh - I think he saw time in prison)
Mary Ann’s death is in 1912 Calton - mother Boyle



1861 census Dundee Angus - Quarry Pend ?
Betsy Boyle 28
Mary Ann Thomson 3 daughter
Plus various lodgers (mill workers)


1871 census Glasgow 49 Princes St 12 Backland  - Night Lodging House
(spelling per Ancestry transcription)
Julia Smernes 60 born Ireland housekeeper
--- numerous lodgers …… including..
Elizabeth Holma 36 born Ireland
Maryann Holma 13 born Dundee
Elizabeth Holmer 8 born Dundee
Sarah Holmer 4 born Glasgow

That census shows another child (sister for Sarah and Mary Ann)
Her birth – Elizabeth Holmes Boylen - 28 November 1862 Dundee
Parent – Betsy Boylen

I have not found a death for Elizabeth Boyle / Bolylan/ Boyland / Holmes. With that choice of surnames there are numerous options.

It is possible if you acquire the 3 girls’ birth certificates, and Mary Ann’s marriage certificate, you might get a few more details.

[Forfarian]

1871 census Glasgow 49 Princes St 12 Backland  - Night Lodging House
(spelling per Ancestry transcription)
Julia Smernes 60 born Ireland housekeeper
--- numerous lodgers …… including..
Elizabeth Holma 36 born Ireland
Maryann Holma 13 born Dundee
Elizabeth Holmer 8 born Dundee
Sarah Holmer 4 born Glasgow

Scotland's People indexes them all as Holms and the landlady as Julia Sweeney.

I took a look at the original and this is a typical rubbish Ancestry transcription. All these surnames are quite clearly legible. Including that of Elizabeth's husband John - is he missing altogether from the Ancestry version?

The FindMyPast transcription is correct.

[Neale1961]

Great Forfarian! Thanks.
I knew the Ancestry transcription was rubbish. Sometimes I think they just don’t give a damn about their transcripts.
Anyway all the details are clear on the original. The other 2 girls, Elizabeth and Sarah, must be on the next page of the census return.  Yes John is there in Ancestry, but for some reason I missed typing him on my list when I posted. I think I was excited to see another daughter appear, and was thinking about her.

Can you see a marriage for John and Elizabeth? I had no luck.

[Forfarian]

I knew the Ancestry subscription was rubbish. Sometimes I think they just don’t give a damn about their transcripts.

Only sometimes?

FindMyPast is slightly better, but is still full of errors, mostly geographical, but some of them highly misleading.

There's a family who look to me like Gilhooley in Julia Sweeney's household. SP indexes them as Gilhorley and FindMyPast has Gilhasley.

Can you see a marriage for John and Elizabeth? I had no luck.

No. Sarah's birth certificate should tell us, but on the other hand they might just have invented a wedding. I also checked the English, Welsh and Irish marriage indexes, but they're not there either. But then they wouldn't be if they were Catholic and married before 1864 in Ireland - do we know what religion they were?

[Neale1961]

There's a family who look to me like Gilhooley in Julia Sweeney's household. SP indexes them as Gilhorley and FindMyPast has Gilhasley.

Ancestry has them as Scharley. 

[Neale1961]

There are Chelsea Pension records for a John James Holmes born abt 1816 Cork.
Scots Fusilier Reg. Of Foot Guards 1865
Enlisted 1835
Discharged 1856 - the right timing to meet Elizabeth Boyland and father Elizabeth in 1862.
His records are behind the Fold3 pay wall, so cannot be sure this is the right man.

Added  - No dismiss him. I found him married in London.

[Forfarian]

Ancestry has them as Scharley. 

If I were not so accustomed to this sort of garbage from Ancestry, words would have failed me