Cleary / Roche County Wexford

[Wexflyer]

OP - Obtaining a copy of Peter's 1845 marriage registration would seem to be in order. That would give you his father's name and occupation.

[Kiltaglassan]

There is a Widow Cleary listed in the 1834 (or 31?)  tythe valuation of the parish of Kilmore, Co. Cavan, townland of Kevitt.
The NAI list this under Kilmore, Co. Mayo, but I believe they are mistaken.

https://titheapplotmentbooks.nationalarchives.ie/reels/tab//004625684/004625684_00060.pdf

Kevit Upper or Castlecosby townland
https://www.townlands.ie/cavan/clanmahon/kilmore/crossdoney/kevit-upper-or-castlecosby/

Kevit Lower to the south.

[accleary]

Peter Cleary, born 1821 - married Isabella Linsley in North-East England (Durham I believe). Evidence for him being from Kilmore is the 1881 E&W Census listing him (Peter Clarry  ) as being born in Kilmoor, Ireland. And I think I've seen Rilmore somewhere too! I've seen others on Ancestry listing a James Cleary, born 1790 in County Clare as his father, but I haven't found documentary evidence of that.

There is a Kilmore in Co. Cavan. A parish and also the name of the entire diocese.
That your Peter Cleary ended up in Durham, might suggest mining - did he have such an association? There were mines in the vicinity of Co. Cavan, which might make a Cavan origin more likely if so. Downside is he would have been born before start of parish register.

There is also a Kilmore Catholic/civil parish in Co. Mayo, on the ocean.

Kilmore, Co. Wexford - A parish with fishing village and an agricultural area. Unlikely candidate for move to Durham? No sign of his baptism in parish registers.
Kilmore, Co. Clare - just a townland.

There is an association with mining, yes, when looking at the census records from the UK and US (Lackawanna County PA is known for mining, I believe), right up to my grandfather who was a coal minor in County Durham.

I'll try to get hold of the Cleary-Linsley marriage certificate.

As for the Roche side, I'm inclined to think now that the Fermoy or Macroom angle for Mary Bridget Roche is a red herring, as the mother's surname there is Daly. Although County Cork being listed as her birthplace on the 1911 census is still interesting. Looking at the Irish birthplaces of her siblings, though, they did seem to move around a bit - Lower Aughrim, Baltinglass, Rathdrum, Kiltegan. I don't know if that was normal at the time.

[Wexflyer]

Looking at the Irish birthplaces of her siblings, though, they did seem to move around a bit - Lower Aughrim, Baltinglass, Rathdrum, Kiltegan. I don't know if that was normal at the time.

Unusual for many, normal for some.
If the Owen Roche, the father on the 1871 birth registration of Joseph Roche, is your ancestor, then it may have been quite normal. His occupation is listed as stonemason. A profession where men had to potentially move around as projects started and finished.

[accleary]

Hi all, long time no reply. How reliable is this site? https://www.newmp.org.uk/person/p-roche-1917/

The reason I ask is that it mentions that Owen Roche married Bridget Daly before marrying Bridget Hart. In relation to Mary Bridget Roche, as mentioned previously I had seen County Cork as her birthplace, and this birth certificate shows a Mary Roche born to Owen Roche and Bridget Daly in Fermoy - https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1869/03392/2244092.pdf - but if the newmp.org.uk site isn't reliable then I don't know whether to believe it.

[Wexflyer]

but if the newmp.org.uk site isn't reliable then I don't know whether to believe it.

It is only as reliable (or not) as the material submitted to it. You  could submit your version just as well.

[accleary]

Ah okay, there I was thinking that there was some kind of insider knowledge! Ok, so given the association with Wexford and the fact that her brothers were born in the Aughrim/Carlow area to Owen Roche and Bridget Hart, it would imply that this is accurate - https://registers.nli.ie/registers/vtls000633444#page/165/mode/1up - born Aughrim Lower, January 1869 to Roche and Hart.

The thing that baffles me is the US census from 1900 (where she lived at the time before moving to the UK), where her date of birth is listed as July 1870, the 1939 England and Wales Register where her date of birth is listed as 2 July 1968, and the 1911 and 1921 England censuses where her place of birth is listed as County Cork 

[Wexflyer]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I gained the impression from some posts (Heywood?) that there were births in England, with mother's surname as Hart. In which case there really isn't any question.

[accleary]

Mary Bridget's siblings all (I think?) seem to have been baptised in the Carlow/Aughrim areas. So the evidence does point to the Fermoy link being a red herring, and that there were inaccuracies in the census data submitted (maybe done by someone on her behalf, maybe deliberate inaccuracies)