Tracing an illusive Railway employee, London, 1930s

[ThrelfallYorky]

When I was trying to find an elusive Railway Driver, not in London, a member called "Red Roger" gave me good advice, and eventually I found my great grandpa!
There's always an expert -or ten - to help, on here.
TY

[fiddlerslass]

Thought I would check directories for Innkeepers or related subjects &don't know if this is a clue but found in Directory of Birmingham 1908:

Dining rooms
Mrs Alice Spiers 7 Leopold St

Albert Spiers Hop Pole PH 43 Pershore St ( gone by 1912 directory new landlord J Duffy)

Several different Spiers jewelry firms too:
D&L Spiers 45 Vittoria St
John Spiers & Co 117 Vyse St
R Spiers & Co 2 Vyse St

Don't know why licensed victualler instead of Jeweller was on marriage cert, unless he was trying to hide something or it's a different person.

[Jool]

He died 15 Aug 1943

Reply #12, page 2

There is also a record at Witton for "Alfred Wilson  Unknown - 1943"
Burial Sep 1943
Worth checking.

Unfortunately this isn't the Alfred Wilson we are looking for, this one was aged 69 and married to Florence for 47 years.

Newspaper announcement of the death in the Birmingham Mail on 4th Sept 1943:

[Jool]

Edwards Spiers death was 15 May 1913

  Reply #122, p14

There appears to be a burial record for Edward Spiers in Findagrave and Witton Cemetery records, May 1913.  No middle name, but correct age and month.

https://birminghamburialrecords.co.uk/#

Yes!  Here is the newspaper announcement dated 19 May 1913 mentioning his mother Jane.

There is also a basic transcript of the burial on FindMyPast, the only additional information is his middle name being confirmed as Newland.  There may or may not be more useful details on the original (Ł10 to download from the site posted by MollyC)

[mazi]

I have read through all 16 pages again and just want to throw in a few comments.

I still think a dining car attendant on the on the the railways most prestigious trains to Scotland would be a long serving and trusted employee.

I am looking back at our waiter in 1921 census who is likely to be the father of the 1922 child living in
Carver st., not far from the jewellery quarter and the queens hotel.  I said previously about his unemployed status but now have noted the date, in 1921 the railways were about to be grouped and the queens was then owned, but not necessarily run by, the LNWR, a company not noted for being a good employer, he may well have got his job back when the LMS was formed under government directions.

I see no barrier to the “jumped ship” man being employed by the LNWR, they had little interest in their hotels.

I see an affable man, a bit of a storyteller enjoying his mixing with rather rich and famous people, but his stories may have varied with his audience.

Sad that his life should have ended due to this long lingering progressive disease, I suspect that his railway career might have ended sometime in 1938, and he was in the sanatorium by the 1939 records, was his death registered by the hospital or by Madge

Just my thoughts,


Mike

[BobB1]

Thank you to Molly C and Jool. 

Both have now confirmed Edward Spier's burial is at Witton cemetery in 1913 and have also ruled out the possible Alfred Spiers in 1943. I was preparing to pay a visit to Witton before I found your update. My hopes were raised a little, but his burial site may yet provide that link.

FYI. I have not found Alf's burial in the Luton area either, so not sure where he is. Although Birmingham seemed feasible as a burial location.

According to Bedford Archives, the medical records for Alf at St Mary's hospital where he died, are closed until 2046 - so nothing more I can do there.

Mazi - My understanding is that dining car attendants were considered an important part of the team and service offering. Unless he was inflating his role. A fair assumption is that his job at the Queens included Silver Service training which would have carried over to LNER/LMS. Also possible that his navy service entailed some waiter/silver service training - I can't work out from the v limited record in what capacity he may have been employed.

Sad that virtually nothing survives of the Queens Hotel. Such a magnificent and grand well known building in Birmingham.

As yet, I have absolutely zero info on his period of employment  - about 1927 to 1940 - with the Railways to corroborate.  I have contacted the National rail museum, the Royal Scott society and neither hold staff records or are able to offer any clarification on employment roles. The Nat Archive is apparently the best place to look and still may be fruitless. It seems that will require a personal visit - unless there is an online option that I have not seen. Does anyone specialize in Railway research?

BUT, we're getting closer - the history of the Spiers family is very compelling, as are the 2 sisters (cousins) who are 'on the stage' a part of the puzzle, that although they're not fully identified, lends a lot of weight to the known facts of the story.

[Jool]

I spent yesterday talking to my Mother to see if any memories could be unlocked. Nothing significant, only the following:

2. She recalls sometime on the late 50s that Madge dropped into a rare conversation that Alf came from a 'well to do' family and was disinherited. Intriguing, but no further info.

I thought I would post this "In Memoriam" announcement placed by Edward Spiers' family 2 years after his death.  It's interesting to see that it's from his mother, sisters and brothers - no mention of his son Albert.  I am guessing that after Albert's mother, Agnes, took him with her to live with her new man, William Abbott, the Spiers family had little or no contact with young Albert.  This may be what was meant by "was disinherited".   Just a thought.

[MollyC]

I think you are probably correct Jool.  The omission of "son" speaks volumes.

(amended)

[Pinjarra1929]

I regret not checking how old this chat is but just I'm having a nightmare finding my moving around grandparents   little heath Coventry,  Islington   Highgate St Pancras etc   , Hastings,  Birmingham plus northern spells.
Just to say I think you mayb ruled out suggests if the London area was wrong. I think boundaries get changed so if the areas are near each other it might be right.