Tracing an illusive Railway employee, London, 1930s

[softly softly]

BobB1,

you quote

His partner with whom he had 4 children was Martha (Madge) Wentworth born 1902 - both used the surname of Wilson, but there is no evidence of a marriage actually taking place. Therefore no more information there.

You may have all this info!

I'm trying to build a picture here so please bear with me. Are you sure Alfred & Martha had only 4 children. I seem to be able to find possibly 6, from 1931-1940, the last being daughter J A born Luton.

Madge appears in Luton in 1939 with 3 redacted names below her entry. Her dob 20.10.1902. She dies as Martha Homer in 1989 with sames dob.

Are you aware that Martha may have had a son called Spencer Wentworth in 1924-1982.

Still looking for Alfred

SS

[BobB1]

Thanks for your input Softly Softly.

I'm aware of only 4 children between Alfred and Martha, my mother being the 2nd child. The 4th, Judy born in Luton where they moved in 1939 - Alfred did not go with them to Luton.

Spencer I know of - he was born illegitimately in 1924 and was left with his grandparents when Madge moved to London (don't know when she did this but 1st son, Eric was born London 1931).

I'm not aware of any possible 6th child beyond this.

I've seen Martha (Madge) on the 1939 Registrar with 3 redacted names below (assume these to be the 3 children) whilst pregnant with the 4th.The address is given as 13 Vernon Road - no idea where this was/is. Alfred does not seem to be on the same register or at the same address.

Alfred/Albert (Wilson or Speers etc) is the real mystery that I've been trying to crack for many months now and I appreciate you joining the hunt. He's out there somewhere. 

Bob

[softly softly]

Bob, quick question, when Alfred/Albert died in 1943 who was a witness to his death and if recorded what was his abode.

SS

added--possible 6

Son E 1931
Dau S M 1934
Son R K mq 1936
Dau S dq 1936
Dau B L 1938
Dau J A 1940

[BobB1]

Softly softly

To answer your questions. He died 15 Aug 1943 at 11a Dunstable Road, Luton. This is/was the postal address of St Mary's hospital.

On the certificate is 'in attendance, M Wilson, Widow'. Stated address was 41 Hawthorne Road, Stoppsley, Luton. This we know is the address that the family had finally moved to after being temporarily accommodated at 13 Dallow Rd, Luton in 1939. Known then as Chalkley's Bakery.

N.B. Just realised that there is a Vernon Road, just of Dallow Road  - perhaps the initial 1st accommodation after moving from London? This is new info to me.

By the time they moved to Stoppsley, it would appear that Alf was already in treatment for TB. We don't know for certain, but its possible he was in Park Hospital Moggerhanger house then moved to St Mary's for his final months. Both of which would be more convenient for Madge to visit.

The 2 additional  births you show for 1936 make no sense to me and no previous mention of this has been made. As far as I am aware, and my Mother, only 4 siblings existed, 1 brother and 3 sisters. Plus step brother Spencer who they knew nothing of until moved back to the Midlands around 1944/45

Bob

[softly softly]

Bob, I too have drawn a blank with Alfred. I have found him with Madge from 1934-1939 in London, you have him from 1939-43. Madge was still single in 1924 then having Eric in 1931. Eric's birth registration was a late registration (1945) so details on that cert will may differ from when he was born in 1931.
With regard to the 2 Wilson/Wentworth births. I strongly suspect they areAlfred & Madges children who died pre 1939, believe R K died as just R in 1937 aged 0.

If only he was on the 1939 register.

Don't think I can offer any more,

SS

[BobB1]

Softly Softly

Thanks v much for your effort.

Alf is a real mystery. I know he was employed - most likely the railways as previously stated. I know where he lived for at least 3 London addresses and I know he had 4 kids and when and where he died - but nothing else. No birth certificate. No employment or military history. He existed but that's all I can say.

How is it possible to have no recorded wartime ID or Ration card. Either he did register or he didn't but he had 3 young children, Madge wouldn't have let him get away with no contribution to the home/rations.

So was it under another name or did he register via his rail company or attempted to sign up but was medically discharged? If he used another name, surely he would have used the address he was then at - 2 Dalby Road which might be cross referenced?

He must be findable somehow and I feel a search for the applicable period of the rail records at Kew - either as Wilson or any variation of Speers - might be the only option left.   

Unless anyone else reading this post has an idea, I'm once again facing a brick wall on this mysterious man.

Bob

[Ashtone]

Ancestry have the UK, Railway Employment Records 1833-1956 collection, provided in association with The National Archives.

As regards the 2 Dalby Road address (1938) are you certain it was in Camden/Kentish Town? Because there are several other Dalby Roads in London: Fulham/Hammersmith and Clapham Junction.

[ShaunJ]

Alfred & Madge Wilson were at "4 & 4a" Dalby Road, Camden in 1936

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/69413567:1795

[BobB1]

Hi Ashtone

I don't have direct access to Ancestry but I think I may have to get an account if its now possible to view Rail records without having to travel to Kew.

As for 2 Dalby Street. The 1938 birth certificate only says '2 Dalby Street, NW5 which I think took a hit from bombing in the early blitz 1939/1940

My mother would have been about 5 years old and can vaguely remember a rush visit 'home' from Luton with Madge and seeing the bombed out street. I have connected that 2 Dalby as being this location but without corroborating evidence.

It is/was well positioned for a Rail worker though.

softly softly - I forgot to ask about the possible 2 extra children...did you find a birth registration or birth certificate that ties in with Madge and Alf?