Tracing an illusive Railway employee, London, 1930s

[softly softly]

Good Morning

FYI. I bumped into my Aunt this morning at the post office (Beatrice, Mom's sister). In brief, I was talking about Madge and asked if she knew when she went to London....? No, but its her understanding that she went to work at a Hotel there.

If true, I wondered if this snippet of info could somehow be relevant to the Albert at the Queens Hotel Birmingham? Is this how they met?

Does Marth (Madge) Wentworth appear in the 1921 census showing any employment?

Bob

I can find a Madge Wilson in 1929 London Electoral register staying/working in the Bloomsbury House Club, Cartwright Gardens, St Panras, Camden.  !!!

SS

[BobB1]

Good Morning

FYI. I bumped into my Aunt this morning at the post office (Beatrice, Mom's sister). In brief, I was talking about Madge and asked if she knew when she went to London....? No, but its her understanding that she went to work at a Hotel there.

If true, I wondered if this snippet of info could somehow be relevant to the Albert at the Queens Hotel Birmingham? Is this how they met?

Does Marth (Madge) Wentworth appear in the 1921 census showing any employment?

Bob

I can find a Madge Wilson in 1929 London Electoral register staying/working in the Bloomsbury House Club, Cartwright Gardens, St Panras, Camden.  !!!

SS

That's a fantastic find. How likely is it that it isn't the right Madge? Maybe just coincidence, but it's a link, albeit tentative, to the Albert (unemployed) hotel worker.

Eric's birth cert as requested. Assumption is that Alf is the Father, but note no Father or occupation is shown - Madge wouldn't have been able to prove they were married.

[Ashtone]

Does Marth (Madge) Wentworth appear in the 1921 census showing any employment?

In 1921 Martha Wentworth is with her family in Kingswinford. No occupation listed. Just "Home Duty".

[BobB1]

FYI. Bloomsbury Club in Cartwright Gardens, now a posh residential crescent is just round the corner from Euston and King's Cross/St Pancras stations.

Ideal if your 'husband' or future prospective boyfriend is working with the railways as a waiter.

Perhaps they already knew each other by 1929. Perhaps they met socially - local pub or something. Perhaps they met in Birmingham and both ran to London?

Bob

[Jool]

According to newspaper articles on Findmypast, The Bloomsbury House Club in Cartwright Gardens was a residential club for men (I can only see the transcript snippets, not the full articles).

Madge Wilson would therefore be staff as opposed to lodging there, of course accommodation may have been included with her employment.

[BobB1]

Hi All

I have been reading through the previous posts this afternoon trying to make sense of things.

For my own benefit and clarification, I have some thoughts:

1. Is it correct to say that its looking like Albert Sydney Spiers and the Albert Spiers (of the Navy) are the same person? It looks highly probable to me.

2. Albert Sydney - seems to have been married around 1922 but had 1 child earlier in Apr 1921 and another in 1926 (Edward and Joan). Is this suggesting Albert Sydney got Amy pregnant but didn't finally married her until 1922, then had another child in 1926. I assume they lived together before he clearly deserts her and the kids in 1926/7?

3. This Albert Sydney Spiers intrigues me. From 1926/7 there's no trace of him anywhere - he disappears - no divorce from Amy that I can personally find and no death notice/record? Has he run off to London and changed his name to Wilson?
. 
4. Is there any consensus that the unemployed hotel waiter, Albert** in the 1921 census is in fact a different chap from Albert Sydney - or are they the same man?

If the same person, I'm failing to see how it fits.

OK, he could also have got Amy pregnant set up family home with her before finally deserting them (the news paper article by Sc00p supports this), but we have to believe that for some reason he moves back to Jamaica Row where he then commits petty crimes - then possibly runs off to London? Not impossible, but am I seeing this wrong?

If Albert Sydney and Albert (Navy) and Hotel Waiter Albert are all the same person - its a confusing muddy picture - but make a compelling case for being my missing Alf don't you think?

Apologies if I have misinterpreted and not processed correctly the order of valuable information RC contributors have found so far. 

Bob

[MollyC]

The point about information generally is that you need to use more than one source if possible, evaluate the reliability of each type of source, and see whether the answers make sense.  You have uncovered two half-lives, which do not overlap, and therefore do not contradict each other.  These individuals found in different places must have existed before and after the events that have been found.  You have not found parallel lives e.g. an Albert and an Albert Sydney at the same time in different places.

Your thread has been running in the Common Room, which a lot of people will look at, but not everyone.  The subject matter has changed from Railways and London.  There may be other RootsChatterers out there who know something.  Now that we seem to have placed the critical period in Birmingham with a surname Spiers, is it worth placing a post on the Warwickshire board, referring back to this original post?  "Albert Spiers missing 1930"  or something like that.

[softly softly]

2. Albert Sydney - seems to have been married around 1922 but had 1 child earlier in Apr 1921 and another in 1926 (Edward and Joan). Is this suggesting Albert Sydney got Amy pregnant but didn't finally married her until 1922, then had another child in 1926. I assume they lived together before he clearly deserts her and the kids in 1926/7?


....................................................................

Believe he and Amy Lilian had 2 children pre marriage

ELLSON, EDWARD  ALBERT     - 
GRO Reference: 1921  J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 615

ELLSON, FRANK  STANLEY     - 
GRO Reference: 1920  J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 419

DeathELLSON, FRANK  STANLEY     aged 0 
GRO Reference: 1920  J Quarter in BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 194

............................

after marriage births

SPIERS, AMY  LILIAN     ELSON 
GRO Reference: 1923  M Quarter in BIRMINGHAM  Volume 06D  Page 587

SPIERS, JOAN  MARGARET     (freebmd confirms mmn Ellson)   
GRO Reference: 1926  D Quarter in BIRMINGHAM NORTH  Volume 06D  Page 546
 
.............................................................

What I find "strange" is that when Martha/Madge registered Eric's birth in 1945 she had moved back to Staffordshire (probable support from family) but did not record a fathers name or occupation.

SS

[mazi]

I will just throw this in, I have a number of autobiographies of railwaymen, both senior and the less exalted, all refer to the railway requiring two references as to character before an application would be considered.

Does not fit with our petty thief becoming a dining car attendant.

Mike