Author Topic: Tracing an illusive Railway employee, London, 1930s  (Read 29657 times)

Offline Sc00p

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Re: Tracing an illusive Railway employee, London, 1930s
« Reply #63 on: Tuesday 13 February 24 11:34 GMT (UK) »

added: Amy Lilian Spiers appears in 1935 electoral register living with a George Walter Edge in Sparkbrook--as per 1939 register.


She's with him in 1931 as Lilian Amy Spiers - Same address as 1939.
George Walter Edge's wife Nellie Spiers nee Cate? appears to have died in 1930.

Offline jonwarrn

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Re: Tracing an illusive Railway employee, London, 1930s
« Reply #64 on: Tuesday 13 February 24 11:41 GMT (UK) »
So in the 1921 census Edward Albert Ellson born 1921 is in Birmingham with the Ellson family, including mum Amy Lillian.
Relation Grandchild?

Offline Sc00p

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Re: Tracing an illusive Railway employee, London, 1930s
« Reply #65 on: Tuesday 13 February 24 11:49 GMT (UK) »
So in the 1921 census Edward Albert Ellson born 1921 is in Birmingham with the Ellson family, including mum Amy Lillian.
Relation Grandchild?

Amy (relation to head is daughter) is with her Parents so yes Edward Albert is Grandchild of head.

Offline BobB1

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Re: Tracing an illusive Railway employee, London, 1930s
« Reply #66 on: Tuesday 13 February 24 12:22 GMT (UK) »
Thank you all for your recent posts. Absolutely fascinating and great detective work going on  - there's the feeling of an impending breakthrough.

But to be honest, I'm finding it a bit confusing.

1. Is there a detectable connection between the Albert Wilson in 171 Camden that Sc00p found with the amended birth date? Still can't understand how or why such a change could be made. and the Albert Sydney Spiers in the Queen's Hotel in Birmingham and Sc00p find of Albert Spiers recorded as in the Navy?

2. Jumping ship - if not court martialled or prosecuted at the time - might be a reason to change name, ditto if your Father was accused of Murder, but why isn't it also an issue in the 1920s when potentially working at the Queen's Hotel?

3. If we're on the right track with this/these Spiers, am I correct that for at least Sydney a previous marriage might have occurred but no divorce? If he is the right chap, is that the reason he never married Madge and subsequently adopted Wilson?

4. I haven't yet found a death cert for this Albert Sydney. Does this lend weight to the connection with Madge - because Albert Sydney's death might have been our recorded Wilson in 1943?

5. Also bear in mind that for Madge 'Well to do'' would have meant anyone who wasn't from a background of the abject poverty in which she was brought up.

6. I have been following up on the LMS link and have been referred back to the National Railway museum  - who I wrote to 3 weeks ago - as a potential start point.

7. The Queens Hotel was adjacent to New Street Station  - a substantial building (see photo) the connection with Albert as a waiter and LMS - or at least being well positioned to seek employment with the railways is compelling.

8. It would be perfect if there was a record of Madge working there about the same time - but I have a feeling it won't be that easy. :)

9. any sign of Albert Sydney on the 1939 Register? I still don't understand how 'Alf Wilson' managed with out an ID/Ration card during the war without registering in some way.


Offline jonwarrn

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Re: Tracing an illusive Railway employee, London, 1930s
« Reply #67 on: Tuesday 13 February 24 12:33 GMT (UK) »
This marriage certificate would make very interesting reading with regard to father's names, occupations etc.

It's possible the 1923 birth cert of daughter Amy could be enough. It might give Albert's full names (Sydney was on EA's baptism in 1921, though he was Ellson on that of course!) His occupation will be on it (hopefully waiter or similar), and address.
Now available instantly as a digital image for just £2.50.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp

Something for BobB1 to ponder.

The Navy record that was found by Sc00p can be seen without ancestry. Just register on TNA website and it can be download it for free
Spiers, Albert
Official Number: J51973
Date of Birth: 24 May 1900
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6950895

Offline BobB1

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Re: Tracing an illusive Railway employee, London, 1930s
« Reply #68 on: Tuesday 13 February 24 13:01 GMT (UK) »
This marriage certificate would make very interesting reading with regard to father's names, occupations etc.

It's possible the 1923 birth cert of daughter Amy could be enough. It might give Albert's full names (Sydney was on EA's baptism in 1921, though he was Ellson on that of course!) His occupation will be on it (hopefully waiter or similar), and address.
Now available instantly as a digital image for just £2.50.
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp

Here's that Birth Certificate for Amy. Not sure it tells us anything useful though.


Something for BobB1 to ponder.

The Navy record that was found by Sc00p can be seen without ancestry. Just register on TNA website and it can be download it for free
Spiers, Albert
Official Number: J51973
Date of Birth: 24 May 1900
https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D6950895

Offline jonwarrn

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Re: Tracing an illusive Railway employee, London, 1930s
« Reply #69 on: Tuesday 13 February 24 13:11 GMT (UK) »
Well he is a Hotel Waiter, occupation matches the chap in 1921 census in Reply #45 by Ashtone
And points towards him being the Albert Sydney "Ellson" named as father of Edward Albert baptized just before that census.
So, getting there.

Online softly softly

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Re: Tracing an illusive Railway employee, London, 1930s
« Reply #70 on: Tuesday 13 February 24 13:59 GMT (UK) »
Unfortunately Joan Margaret's birth in 1926 is not available as a digital image but it could close the net even further with it's details.


Edward Albert Ellson/Spiers born jq 1921 appears in 1939 war register and dies 1991 Birmingham with a dob 3.3.1921 as per 1939

SS

Offline BobB1

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Re: Tracing an illusive Railway employee, London, 1930s
« Reply #71 on: Tuesday 13 February 24 14:05 GMT (UK) »
Well he is a Hotel Waiter, occupation matches the chap in 1921 census in Reply #45 by Ashtone
And points towards him being the Albert Sydney "Ellson" named as father of Edward Albert baptized just before that census.
So, getting there.

I have downloaded his Navy Record - attached for reference. It's not easy to decipher the poor writing, but this chap is a bit of a problem child for the Navy :)

It does sort of fit with the Alf I'm trying to discover who I've come to think of as a bit of a chancer type, certainly someone who has something to hide, or just  a naturally deceitful individual - its hard to know which , if either, is correct.

So, where to go next?

I feel he has to be pursued until he can be officially ruled out.