Researching a beautiful london Actress... and failing

[maddys52]

I did have a very quick look at JewishGen and Synagogue Scribes a couple of days ago but didn't come up with anything. Will have another look.

[jaywit]

I don't think the Joseph(s) family were recent immigrants into London I suspect they had been there some time but once we get back before 1837 it will be Synagogue records needed.

Also it appears they were not on early census records, I don't know if this was a reluctance to appear on anything official.

We do probably need someone with Jewish experience.

[melba_schmelba]

I did have a very quick look at JewishGen and Synagogue Scribes a couple of days ago but didn't come up with anything. Will have another look.

I had a look on the Knowles Collection, and there are a lot of Jewish genealogies on there, but not our particular couple, at least, not info on their marriage or children
https://www.familysearch.org/search/genealogies/results?count=20&q.subcollectionId=MMD6-PK1

I don't think the Joseph(s) family were recent immigrants into London I suspect they had been there some time but once we get back before 1837 it will be Synagogue records needed.

Also it appears they were not on early census records, I don't know if this was a reluctance to appear on anything official.

We do probably need someone with Jewish experience.

Well, I found Rachael, the possible aunt? of Joseph Joseph(s) on the 1861 census with her (Lazarus) parents, John Joseph was not there. I couldn't find them on the 1871 census which would be helpful in working out whether Joseph was their son or not.

[melba_schmelba]

I think this could be Joseph as he has a sister Julia

1881 census

20, Wentworth Court, Spitalfields, London (Middlesex)

Nathan Joseph, 50 (b.c. 1831 Holland), cook, wife Isabella, 49 (b.c. 1832 London, nee Solomon(s))

children

Woolf, 15 (b.c. 1866 London) cabinet maker
Joseph, 17 (b.c. 1864 London) confectioner
Isaac, 13 (b.c. 1868 London)
Leah, 11 (b.c. 1870 London)
Julia, 7 (b.c. 1874 London)

and in 1871

6, Old Castle Street, Whitechapel

Nathan Joseph, 41 (b.c. 1830 Amsterdam, Holland), pastry cook, wife Isabella, 37 (b.c. 1834 Aldgate, Middlesex)

children

Henry, 14 (b.c. 1857 St. Mary le Grand (Strand?))
Sarah, 12 (b.c. 1859 Spitalfields), machinist
Aaron, 10 (b.c. 1861 St. Mary le Grand (Strand?)), scholar
Deborah, 9 (b.c. 1862 St. Mary le Grand (Strand?)), scholar
Joseph, 7 (b.c. 1864 St. Mary le Grand (Strand?)), scholar
Woolf, 5 (b.c. 1866 Mile End New Town), scholar
Isaac, 3 (b.c. 1868 St. Georges in the East), scholar
Leah, 1 (b.c. 1870 Whitechapel)

and sister in law Sophia Solomons, 22 (b.c. 1849 Spitalfields)
a servant Mary Ann Robinson, 18

[melba_schmelba]

Scrap the above theory, Nathan a widower with his son Joseph in 1901, a confectioner married to Amelia .

[willsy]

1881
There's a JJ at 18 Middlesex Street, butcher's shopman but c1855 born Whitechapel

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QK6T-3K2Q

with the Weil family.

There's also a freemason record for a JJ butcher and he joins the Lodge of Joppa, address 10 Ferntower Road, Canonbury 20/12/1887

ADDED the freemason record is c1859

[maddys52]

That 1881 census looks promising. Interestingly there is a Rachel JOSEPH (49, niece, single) with the WEILs in 1901 and 1911 (has her age as unknown). Of course this could be just a coincidence - JOSEPH being a very common name.

I think Simon WEIL married Esther SIMMONS Jun qtr 1868 London City (1c/201). There are 2 Esther's on the page, however in 1901 there is a Rose SIMMONDS (sister in law) with the WEIL family. Can't see a birth for Simon's daughter Bertha unless it is this one in Dec qtr 1872 Marylebone (1a/482) mmn SALOMONS.

[jaywit]

I am trying to find what happened to everyone involved.

Joseph Joseph was back in London by 1921, a boarder Antique Dealer in Islington.

He died in 1924 in Islington. Admin. to Louis Joseph Antique Dealer estate £106.14s

[jaywit]

I see Annie was saying she was widowed in 1921, not quite. 

Not miles away from Joseph  Bloomsbury to Islington.