Trace Ancestor

[Neale1961]

Once again - no communication from Cosmos55, despite many people providing information. 

Cosmos, When you get the birth certificate for Annie Ruth Raven you will have a date of birth. You can compare this against names in the 1939 regsiter.
There is one likely possibility I can see, under a different surname.

[Cosmos55]

hi neale

i am amazed at the information you and others are finding. Im flat out with work and big family so please dont feel im not replying sooner.

I will order and join the sites suggested and going back to Thomas Brown it seems he returned from India in 1908 (Southampton) but left army and went to a special hospital. Not sure what happened to first daughter Florence (1903) or my grandmother (1906) during all this.
I will be in touch over the weekend.
You and your fellow contributors are
providing fascinating traces here.

[Neale1961]

Cosmos, Thanks for letting us know you are still following this thread.

... going back to Thomas Brown it seems he returned from India in 1908 (Southampton) but left army and went to a special hospital.

I think you are getting ahead of yourself. Thomas Brown is such a common name. We don't know if the man in the hospital is your Thomas. You need to get his birth certificate and find his birth date, to be able to move forward.

Also if you want to try to trace Annie Ruth (Raven) Brown, you need her exact birth date from her birth certificate.

.... Not sure what happened to first daughter Florence (1903) ......

To have any hope of finding Florence, you need to know her birth date, so you need to acquire her birth certificate. If she had a complete name change it might not be possible to find her.

The digital records available from the GRO are the way to go, in my opinion.  They are quite inexpensive and can be downloaded immediately.

Let us know what you find and we can try to help further. 

[Neale1961]

Some more interesting news!    .... It would seem that Annie Ruth (Raven) Brown had a fourth child born in 1911.

The 1921 census shows the following 2 Brown boys living with the Raven family in Reading:
•   Thomas   Brown   Grandson   Male   1908   13y 6m born India
•   Arthur George   Brown   Grandson   Male   1911 9y 8 m born London

Arthur George Brown remains with the Raven family in Pangbourne St, but at some point he changes his surname to STEARMAN.

See the electoral rolls up to 1937 – all living at 37 Pangbourne St
George Raven, Thomas Brown, Arthur George Stearman

Regarding Arthur George Brown who became Arthur George Stearman.
From his age in the 1921 census, we know he was born about October 1911.
So when Annie Ruth Raven/ Brown was working as a cook in the school in Surrey in 1911 census, she must have been pregnant.
Guess who else is working at the same school?
George Henry Stearman a butler, age 43. He was married in 1894 to Susannah Dye who appears living in Norfolk with some children, but Stearman and her seem to be living apart, in 1901 census, 1911 census, and in 1920 he is in the workhouse in Camden London, and he dies there in November 1920.
When the son was born in 1911 George and Annie registered him using Susannah’s maiden name “Dye”, and then packed the child off to the Ravens. I suppose they may have both lost their employment as well?
( I can see that George Henry Stearman fathered another illegitimate child named Albert Edward baptised in 1906 in Willesden with a woman named May Hannah.)


George Arthur Stearman  alias Arthur George BROWN  (birth 18 Oct 1911)

Birth rego
STEARMAN, GEORGE  ARTHUR     Mother – DYE 
GRO Reference: 1911  D Quarter in CAMBERWELL  Volume 01D  Page 1569

George Arthur married Gwendoline Lydia Agnes COOPER in 1937 in Reading
He died 2 Jan 1961 Reading.

It looks like they had four children up to 1950. They cannot be named here as they will probably still be alive. However this might provide a DNA match for Cosmos.

[Cosmos55]

Wow I cant keep pace with this thread!!! Not so long ago either... this whole genelogy is a complete new world of amazement to me. I will trace the certificates and references over the weekend and still wonder when/where my grandmother was adopted... Did she go to India with her parents when Thomas was born or adopted afyer birth. I will be back with certificate info )

[Neale1961]

… Thomas's British Army service record is on there. He was born West Ilsley Berkshire & it is quite informative. His three children were Florence, Annie Bessie & Thomas Henry William & he was discharged on the 17th  Nov 1908 at Netley.

While we have been waiting to hear back from Cosmos with records I have been wondering about the above information, and why Thomas was in Netley. (Note- I have not seen the records referred to.)

There was a large military hospital in Netley – The Queen Victoria Military Hospital
Was Thomas Brown in Netley, and discharged there, because he was in hospital ?
If so - there is this possible death.

BROWN, THOMAS       Age 32 
GRO Reference: 1909  M Quarter in FAREHAM  Volume 02B  Page 475

If this is correct it would suggest that the 2 little girls were adopted out after Thomas’ death and before the 1911 census – about 1909 or 1910.

1911 census sees Annie Ruth Brown working at the Woodcote Lodge School in Windlesham. We don’t know when she commenced work there.
This school was started after the battle of Waterloo to train young boys for the Royal Military Academy at Sandhurst. By 1854 it was a boys’ boarding school still with military connections.
When you look at the places of birth of the students in the 1911 census, it is clear that most of them are probably sons of military families.
I wonder if Annie’s connection with the military got her the job there after her husband’s death? I also wonder if the school had contacts which organised the adoption of orphaned children – or maybe Netley hospital did?
Annie would not have been able to live and work at the school with three young children in tow.

Lots of speculation from me while we wait for some more information from Cosmos.

[Cosmos55]

Hi

Im trying to download digital images of the certificates we need (youve all suggested) but not working on mobile unfortunately so will try on laptop tomorrow. I am a member of Myheritage but do you suggest i sign up for Ancestry and any other suggestions please. A completely new world this is for me and such interesting, amazing information you are all providing.
Ill be in touch tomorrow with birth dates etc requested. Thank you so much again.

[mckha489]

Good thinking Neale.

I’ve finally got around to looking at that military file
And I think you could be correct.
He was invalided home 23 Oct 1908, discharged ‘medically unfit’ 17th November 1908
Although it does say he would be suited to a position of trust in civilian life.

The file names his parents and all his brothers & sisters as well as the children

And…Florence’s birthdate is 2nd November 1903. So can we find her?  If we assume the girls were ‘rehomed’ in 1909, she would have been 6. Surely too young old (brain fade) to have another name assigned.

[Neale1961]

I am a member of Myheritage but do you suggest i sign up for Ancestry and any other suggestions please. A completely new world this is for me and such interesting, amazing information you are all providing.

Cosmos, if you want access to Thomas Brown's military information and the 1921 census, you would need to join FindMyPast, as these are not on Ancestry.

We now know Florence's birthdate, so we will do some more searching for her.
You may prefer NOT to get her birth certificate now, but instead get the death certificate for the Thomas Brown in 1909.  As this will tell us if my hunch is right or wrong.

BROWN, THOMAS       Age 32
GRO Reference: 1909  M Quarter in FAREHAM  Volume 02B  Page 475


Thanks mckha489 for your vote of confidence.